Science of Perception Box

Even though our experiences are shaped by unconscious patterns and bodily sensations, we have the agency to actively transform them simply by staying present and aware. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sit down with Stanford neuroscientist and “Huberman Lab” host Andrew Huberman to explore the science of how your brain and body talk to each other, and how you can use that conversation to your advantage. Huberman shares his evidence-based solutions for optimizing brain function, mood, energy, and physical performance in order to learn new skills and behaviors that can transform your life. Huberman’s exploration of the brain-body connection speaks to a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine and host of the “Huberman Lab” podcast. His newest book, Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body publishes in September 2026 and culminates years of research, lab work, and conversations with scientists.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Opening

06:33 Yoga Nidra and Tactical Breathing

09:25 What Helps Addiction

14:18 Physiological Sigh

17:37 Naming Shapes Adoption

23:05 Alcohol Health Consensus

26:20 Gut Microbiome and Nutrition

27:42 Sex and Wellbeing

30:56 Sleep, Aging and Melatonin

32:42 Protocols Book Overview

35:18 Letting Go and Faith

37:56 Psychedelics

39:44 Perception Box Questions

How much of your energy is focused on trying to change people who aren't ready to change? Best-selling author and podcast host Mel Robbins joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what happens when you stop trying to control others and start reclaiming your own life. Robbins calls it the “Let Them Theory”: a deceptively simple idea that has struck a nerve with millions worldwide who are using it to address frustration, anxiety, their need for control, and more.

Mel’s “Let Them Theory” touches on a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Mel Robbins is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and host of the award-winning “Mel Robbins Podcast”, with more than 40 million followers worldwide. Her book The Let Them Theory was the top-selling nonfiction title of 2025, selling seven million copies in nine months.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

05:09 Introducing Mel Robbins

06:43 Parents And Instinct to Rescue

12:32 Helping Without Pushback

14:27 Annoying Spouse Habits

19:00 “Let Them, Let Me” Boundaries

21:03 Losing Control In Modern Life

26:01 The Cold Tea Test

27:12 Flow State Reset

28:51 Why Let Them Works

31:48 Let Them Let Me Boundaries

33:28 Radical Acceptance in Relationships

37:17 Perception Box Reflections

40:24 People Pleasing as Control

43:01 Let Them or Step In Game

Dr. Camilo Ortiz, clinical psychologist and creator of Independence Therapy, joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to unpack why the instinct in modern parenting is to protect kids from every risk may be backfiring. Dr. Ortiz explains how a child's Perception BoxTM starts forming almost as soon as they can speak, why parents today wildly overestimate danger despite living in the safest era on record, and how everyday tasks such as chopping vegetables, walking to the store alone can rebuild kids' confidence and resilience.

Dr. Camilo Ortiz is board-certified in behavioral and cognitive therapy. He holds an MS and PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and serves as a tenured associate psychology professor at Long Island University, bringing 20 years of clinical experience to his role.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Chapters:

06:39 Independence With Guardrails

13:03 Freedom Versus Neglect

16:26 Getting Lost Builds Confidence

18:55 “When Then” Parenting

23:52 Why Parents Overprotect

28:27 Independence Therapy Basics

31:01 When Freedom Backfires

42:07 Independence Or Interference

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Why do two people witness the same event and walk away with entirely different experiences of what happened? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch return for Season 2 of Science of Perception Box, exploring the invisible framework, the Perception Box™, that shapes how your brain constructs reality, interprets experience, and defines your sense of self. Each week, they sit down with guests including Mel Robbins, Andrew Huberman and Sam Harris to unpack how perception is built, and how you can gain more agency over your own. New episodes weekly.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend. You can even do both!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Can psychedelics under anesthesia heal trauma? What is the latest research around ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin? That’s part of what we explore this week on Science of Perception Box. Stanford anesthesiologist Dr. Boris Heifets joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch to discuss the latest research on the first double-blind study on Ketamine, the placebo effect, and the therapeutic value of anesthesia-induced dreams.

Dr. Boris Heifets, MD, PhD, is a board certified anesthesiologist who specializes in providing anesthesia for neurological surgery. He has practiced at Stanford since 2010. After completing residency training at Stanford, Dr. Heifets completed fellowship training in neuroanesthesiology, also at Stanford. In addition to treating patients, Dr. Heifets directs both clinical research and basic neuroscience. His research group studies how new rapid-acting psychiatric therapies like ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin produce lasting changes in nervous system function, behavior, and therapeutic outcomes.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. 

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. 

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. 

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. 

Episode Chapters:
(00:00) - Introduction
(01:34) - Exploring Psychedelics and Anesthesiology
(02:53) - Dr. Boris Heifetz's Background
(04:32) - Understanding Anesthesia and Consciousness
(07:56) - The Therapeutic Potential of Psychedelics
(10:48) - Challenges in Psychedelic Research
(18:00) - Innovative Approaches in Psychedelic Medicine
(24:35) - Introduction to the Study and Consent Process
(24:50) - Patient Interviews and Priming for Ketamine
(25:33) - Surgical Anesthesia and Placebo Effect
(26:28) - Unexpected Placebo Findings
(26:45) - Implications for Psychedelic Studies
(27:32) - Harnessing the Placebo Effect
(31:47) - Dream States and Anesthesia
(38:22) - Transformative Experiences in Clinical Care
(42:53) - Personal Reflections and Gratitude
(47:07) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts