The Immortal Life of Agencies

Today’s guests are Courtney Worthman and Stacey Gersten, Co-Founders of Main Character, the celebrity partnership specialists helping brands stop buying celebrities and start buying into culture.
Drawing on two decades of experience across entertainment, advertising and PR, Courtney and Stacey explain why moving ‘at the speed of culture’ has become a practical necessity and how building celebrity partnerships has evolved into a quantitative science.
We explore the balance between data and instinct, the realities of managing dynamic stakeholder relationships, and how brands discern the right cultural moments.
This is a modern, practical conversation about culture, influence and the changing role of celebrity in brand communications.
HIGHLIGHTS:
[03:26] Main Character’s origin story
[07:15] Being audience first
[10:11] Thinking in calendars
[13:42] Making ideas executable
[16:51] Pulling the right levers
[19:03] The science behind celebrity
[27:05] Brands as entertainment studios
[30:09] An easy way to yes
[32:10] Brand to brand partnerships

MORE ABOUT COURTNEY & STACEY:
LinkedIn (Courtney): linkedin.com/in/courtney-worthman
LinkedIn (Stacey): linkedin.com/in/stacey-gersten
Website: main-character.com

HOST SOCIALS:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn
Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:
Website: codefinery.com
Book: Market of One
Mentioned in this episode:
Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire
Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Micky Ogando, CEO and Chief Creative Officer of the 80-person, Austin-based independent creative agency, Bakery.
Unpacking the trend of big brands choosing indies, Micky explains why many clients misunderstand what they’re actually buying when they swap HoldCo. polish for opinionated misfits, and how this friction can be channeled into better work.
The conversation also covers how Bakery vets potential clients and when agency owners should evolve beyond improvising in their early days and start really focusing on what they're really good at.
HIGHLIGHTS:
[02:35] Starting without a blueprint
[05:44] Misconceptions about indies
[07:54] Independent versus small
[11:41] Scale with minimal friction
[16:24] Vetting process on both sides
[21:08] Limits of improvisation
[22:26] The He-Man strategy
[23:51] Avoiding the Abilene paradox
[25:51] The Michelin star mindset
[29:43] Taste, criteria, standards and craft

MORE ABOUT MICKY:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mickyogando
Website: bakery.agency

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Agency Galaxy
https://thecultish.substack.com/p/a-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-agency

HOST SOCIALS:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn
Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:
Website: codefinery.com
Book: Market of One
Mentioned in this episode:
Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire
Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Måns Hosk, Co-CEO of Eidra, the Swedish consultancy collective that’s grown from five founding businesses into a 1,500-person organisation spanning Europe and the US.
Måns shares how Eidra was built around a simple idea: modern client challenges rarely fit neatly into a single discipline. He explains how strategy, creativity, technology, data and AI have been brought together to solve broader business problems, while maintaining the specialist expertise clients still value.
The conversation explores what integration looks like in practice, why overwhelming clients with capability is rarely effective, and how Eidra’s ‘bring a friend’ approach has helped build deeper, more valuable relationships.
Måns also reflects on AI, organisational change, and why Scandinavian values such as collaboration, pragmatism and humility have become important advantages.
HIGHLIGHTS:
[02:38] What is Eidra?
[08:06] All about solidarity
[11:05] The challenges of integration
[12:54] Applying pragmatism
[16:06] Starting with transformation
[21:11] Bring a friend approach
[30:36] New superstars vs obsolescence
[31:46] The Scandinavian advantage
[35:07] Eidra’s next chapter

MORE ABOUT MÅNS HOSK:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/m%C3%A5ns-jacobsson-hosk-9123044/
Website: eidra.com

HOST SOCIALS:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn
Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:
Website: codefinery.com
Book: Market of One
Mentioned in this episode:
Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire
Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Josh Campo, CEO of Huge. And if you think your to-do list is long, you might need to reconsider.
On top of the wider market disruption, Josh is overseeing all manner of change – still fresh from exiting IPG, Huge is navigating PE-ownership, integrating with Hero Digital and continuing its productisation journey.
On the integration with Hero, he explains why successful integration requires a complete rebirth of culture, not just simply blending two organisations together.
Pragmatic, candid and optimistic throughout, Josh also explores Huge’s much discussed productisation journey, the decline of time-based pricing, and why agencies must move beyond selling “done” and focus instead on outcomes, speed and commercial value.
HIGHLIGHTS:
[02:37] Navigating four transformations
[04:07] Rebirth of culture
[06:56] Rebuilding from common ground
[11:20] Delivering on the promise
[15:50] Why productisation matters
[22:26] The declining value of ‘done’
[30:08] A future without timesheets
[31:33] Procurement needs a new story
[37:30] The future belongs to excellence
[42:02] Speed is of the essence

MORE ABOUT JOSH:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joshcampo
Website: hugeinc.com

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:
Madison Avenue Makeover: The transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business: amazon.com/Madison-Avenue-Makeover-transformation-redefinition

HOST SOCIALS:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn
Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:
Website: codefinery.com
Book: Market of One
Mentioned in this episode:
Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire
Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is James Greenfield, Co-Founder and CEO of Koto, the globally recognised branding agency working with companies like Netflix, Spotify and Google.
James explains how listening closely to client needs has shaped the agency’s evolution, remaining anchored in brand, but also delivering high quality campaigns and digital products.
The conversation also explores how Koto’s buyer landscape is changing, with CEOs now far more involved in decisions traditionally owned by marketing teams. James unpacks the growing importance of consistency across fragmented customer journeys, and why brand increasingly plays a central organising role.
Alongside this, he reflects on leadership, creativity and the discipline required to move from practitioner to CEO, offering a clear and optimistic vision for how agencies evolve.
HIGHLIGHTS:
[03:04] How client-centricity drives growth
[07:02] Changes in how clients buy
[11:04] Why brand drives survival
[14:37] Internal versus external reality
[16:39] The cobbler’s children problem
[19:28] Three pillars of Koto
[21:54] Closing the execution gap
[27:12] Qualifying the right clients
[30:20] How AI supports not replaces
[38:51] Life as a CEO
[40:50] Creativity over quarterly numbers

MORE ABOUT JAMES:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-greenfield
Website: koto.com

HOST SOCIALS:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn
Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:
Website: codefinery.com
Book: Market of One
Mentioned in this episode:
Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire
Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq