The Cinematography Podcast

• Cinematographer Kira Kelly, ASC on the unique visuals of HIM

  The Cinematography Podcast Episode 328: Kira Kelly, ASC Cinematographer Kira Kelly, ASC, had a rare opportunity in the movie HIM: exploring the genres of horror and sports, which are not usually combined. She and director Justin Tipping focused their discussions on Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), specifically how football-related brain injuries often cause hallucinations. This condition was central to building the feeling of surrealism for the main character, Cam. Before beginning the 8 weeks of prep on HIM, director Justin Tipping created an extensive lookbook with ideas for the atmosphere, lighting and costumes. To establish the film’s unique, suspenseful, and surrealistic look, he suggested Kira watch The Holy Mountain and Black Swan. “Justin was open to lots of collaboration,” says Kira. “I feel like this film does have such a strong visual look because we were all working together to make the movie.” Camera movement, color, and lighting are all integral to the movie’s storytelling. As Cam descends deeper into the underground compound, Kira used specific colors and lighting. She created a document to track the emotional influence of color for each scene, integrating the lighting into the set and programming the colors to change per sequence. Red with orange highlights was used for the Saviors party, reflecting the oxblood red of the team colors. Fuchsia and magenta were used to show rage. For the scenes on the training field, Kira used top lighting, so that the skin tones of the players would have some reflectivity. Kira's camera work parallels Cam's psychological journey. “At the beginning, it should be fun,” Kira explains. “He's playing football. It's much more loose.” The crew used handheld and body cameras, plus a boomerang rig that sent the camera flying down the field. Once Cam feels trapped in the compound, Kira shifted the style dramatically. “That's where we get into more of these center- punched static frames. He's trapped figuratively, and all the ways.” One of HIM's most unique visual elements was the use of a Flir thermal imaging camera. Kelly and Tipping wanted to use the thermal camera to visually represent the internal trauma of what was happening inside the players’ bodies and brains during tackles. Kira and her crew created a rig to mount the Flir camera right above the ALEXA 35 and found that the images could converge and focus enough to allow the two images to overlay. The shots could flick back and forth between the regular camera and the thermal camera. In post, VFX added the brains and accentuated the muscles. The thermal camera effectively showed blood flow and hot and cold areas, adding a chilling layer to the physical impact of the sport. Kira feels gratified that her vision for the visual style of HIM tells an effective story. “As a DP, every challenge I have is if an audience is able to understand the story,” she says. “If they don't have the wonderful dialogue, if they don't have the music, if they don't have all of those other things helping the story along, could they tell what's happening just with the imagery? And I feel like with HIM, I say, yeah, I think so. You can see it happening. And that's what's super exciting to me.” See HIM in theaters and on VOD. Find Kira Kelly: Instagram @kirakellydp Hear our previous interviews with Kira Kelly: https://www.camnoir.com/ep67/ https://www.camnoir.com/ep273/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

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• Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo of Asteria on AI in filmmaking

  The Cinematography Podcast Episode 327: Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo of Asteria on AI in filmmaking Asteria, an AI-driven film and animation studio, recently merged with Moonvalley, an AI research firm, to create generative video technology for filmmakers. Their AI model, Marey, is a visual intelligence model trained only on data that is fully licensed by the company. Unlike other AI companies that use large language models (LLMs) that process text, Marey is designed to understand and generate physical movement. Asteria hired a group of filmmakers who contributed to Marey's research for six months, followed by a three-month alpha testing period with outside partners. Users can now access Marey online at Moonvalley with a subscription. Co-founder Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo, a director and partner at Asteria, saw a clear need to involve filmmakers and artists in the inevitable future of AI, which is already integral to the film and television process. As Paul puts it, “AI is a bunch of forking paths with different people approaching it in different ways.” Asteria's AI is just a tool for filmmakers to use. “We don't need it to know how to make a movie,” Bryn says. “We make the movie, and we already know how to make the movie.” Both Paul and Bryn want to be thoughtful about how AI is used, and to constantly ask why they are using the tools, and if there's a new way to use them. They don't believe those in the film industry will be replaced or no longer have jobs. “Right now, using AI is optional as a filmmaker,” says Bryn. “But learning about it is not optional right now. We have to learn about it. We know that this is an inevitability that a lot of it is gonna be in the way that we make stuff.” Bryn sees it as another evolution and democratization of the filmmaking process. “My first documentary I was nominated for was shot on the Canon 5D with a GoPro,” he says. “That was a moment where the democratization of indie film and documentaries allowed me to be a filmmaker when I couldn't have before. Now we sit at a time where the same opportunity for this democratization is happening, but it's studio level films.” Asteria will launch its first live-action feature with Natasha Lyonne's film, Uncanny Valley, which will combine AI-generated footage with traditional filmmaking techniques. Find Bryn Mooser: Instagram: @brynmooser @asteriafilm Find Paul Trillo: Instagram: @paultrillo Demo Marey online: https://www.moonvalley.com/marey Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

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• Matty Libatique: the NY of Highest 2 Lowest, Caught Stealing

  The Cinematography Podcast Episode 326: Matthew Libatique, ASC Cinematographer Matty Libatique, ASC, has had a productive year. Shortly after moving to New York, he began work on Spike Lee's film, Highest 2 Lowest. Immediately after wrapping that project, Matty prepped for Darren Aronofsky's Caught Stealing, and then, following a short break, he collaborated with Bradley Cooper on Is This Thing On? (which releases in December.) He found it fascinating to explore New York City through the lenses of three distinct directors, feeling privileged to shoot three New York-centric movies back-to-back. The New York depicted in Highest 2 Lowest and Caught Stealing are starkly different, depending on where people from different socioeconomic backgrounds live. Both films effectively convey the diverse realities of living there. "When you look at both films, separately, you have a feeling of New York, you feel like you're living in New York inside of these films," Matty explains. "And it's because the directors live in New York and have grown up in New York." During location scouting with both Lee and Aronofsky, Matty noted their deep familiarity and emotional attachment to where they chose to shoot. He feels that movies faking New York locations lack the inherent authenticity of shooting in the real city. Highest 2 Lowest is a reinterpretation of the Akira Kurosawa classic, High and Low. Matty used High and Low as an influence, even though Lee was not making a direct adaptation. He found the Kurosawa film helped him see the hierarchy between the affluent and the poor, and the literal rise to the top of a hill by the wealthy industrialist from his humble origins. These themes became the seed of his visual inspiration. In Highest 2 Lowest, Denzel Washington's record executive David King inhabits a high-rise, literally looking down on the world from a high vantage point. The film is intensely character-driven, and with a large ensemble cast, Matty often shot with two to three cameras per scene. The film used an actual exterior of the Olympia building in Dumbo, Brooklyn while the crew shot on a volume stage set for the interiors. Matty found shooting on the volume stage and working with Unreal Engine to create the background images for the penthouse set to be the most challenging aspect of the shoot. It demanded far more advance planning and preparation to perfect the background images than the production schedule allowed. He had to make early, calculated decisions and plan far in advance for shooting the plates that would be used as the backgrounds. Spike Lee frequently incorporates various film formats in his movies, and Matty saw an opportunity to use both a 16mm and a new KODAK Super 8 film camera once the action in Highest 2 Lowest shifted outside the controlled apartment environment. He use both the 16mm and the Super 8 on the subway and in scenes of the Puerto Rican Day parade, also combining them with different film stocks. Lee cut between these distinct formats, which made a sense of heightened chaos. Matty says, “It was just an effort to create chaos, you know, and having the unmatched visual images cut together to sort of just mimic a chaos around this character.” Caught Stealing recreates the New York City of the 1990s, with Martin Scorsese's After Hours serving as a major reference. Matty felt that the character Hank Thompson (Austin Butler) needed a distinct look to articulate the story. He thought about the rust-red tint of the Lee Marvin film, Point Blank, and used a Camtec Color-Con2 to deliberately bleed red color into a few key scenes. Even though Caught Stealing is entertaining and full of action, it was important to Aronofsky to tell a strong, narratively-driven story, with performance and character making the sequences as exciting and brutal as possible. “Like all Darren movies, there's a construct, there's a box, he sets up the architecture of the film,” Matty says.

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• John Conroy on grounding the political thriller Zero Day

  The Cinematography Podcast Episode 325: John Conroy, ASC, ISC For the Netflix six-part political thriller, Zero Day, cinematographer John Conroy, ASC, ISC worked with director Lesli Linka Glatter to create a visual style that felt grounded in reality. Their goal was to make the story, which follows a cyberterrorist attack, feel like it could happen tomorrow. This approach allowed them to focus on the human element and the psychological impact of the events rather than sensationalized drama or violence. John shot all six episodes of the series, a creative choice he found deeply rewarding, although he doesn't feel the need to always be the lead DP. “Ultimately, if you're lucky enough to be shooting, you should feel lucky enough that you're shooting,” he says. “Doing all six was really great because I felt that I could curate the whole look of the show by episode by episode. But if I was only going to do two episodes, I would have enjoyed it just as much.” The cohesive approach was important since they prepped the episodes over 10 weeks as three separate films. John and Glatter shotlisted scenes on weekends, deciding what images would create the most impact for beginnings, transitions and exits for each scene. He made notes in his script to track the desired look, light, and emotion for each scene. John says working with Robert De Niro was a pleasure. “It was one of the privileges of my career to shoot him. And he was very gracious and took notes and was very helpful with the camera crew and overall it was just like a really really good experience.” John found a subtle way to enhance De Niro's performance through lighting and camera tests. “People's faces look different when you light them from one side or the other,” he notes. “I found with Bob that when he was lit from his right hand side, that he looked more severe than when he was lit from the left hand side.” John used this technique in interrogation scenes to emphasize the character's increasing pressure and tension. For more emotional scenes, he lit De Niro from the left to convey a more nuanced and serious tone. Framing each shot was important to the story as well. John always shot De Niro's character, George Mullen, around high doorways and down long hallways, making him seem trapped and under increasing pressure. A key element of the show's look is John's use of single-source lighting, keeping things simple and uncomplicated as much as possible. But he encountered a challenge with the Zero Day Commission offices, whose walls consisted of several layers of glass. John collaborated closely with the set builders to plan his shots and manage the numerous reflections in the office sets. To prevent unwanted double reflections, they created custom black panels to black out panes of glass behind the camera. The lights were cued to dim as actors walked through a shot, controlling reflections. John's passion for cinematography began at an early age, inspired by his father, Jack Conroy, who was also a cinematographer. At just 12, John began loading 16mm film for his father on documentaries and commercials. He then worked as a focus puller until he decided to move into cinematography after working on The DaVinci Code. He and his father were able to work together on the TV series Broadchurch, with Jack shooting second unit. John's current work can be seen on Wednesday Season 2, the upcoming Dune: Prophecy Season 2, and the upcoming Fallout Season 2. Find John Conroy: Instagram: @jccine See Zero Day on Netflix. Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ Sponsored by ARRI: https://www.arri.com/en The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

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• Alien: Earth director/DP Dana Gonzales reimagines a classic

  The Cinematography Podcast Episode 324: Producer, Director, DP Dana Gonzales, ASC Dana Gonzales, ASC is a producer, director, and cinematographer known for his collaborations with visionary showrunner Noah Hawley on projects like Fargo and Legion. Dana has once again partnered with Hawley to bring the iconic sci-fi horror franchise to television with FX's Alien: Earth. Dana shares insights on his creative process, the challenges of honoring a cinematic legacy, his career path and the future of the industry. For Dana and Hawley, tackling the Alien universe was a formidable task. “You're taking on some strong material,” Dana explains. “The reason we're reimagining it is because it is so popular and loved and people want to see more.” The goal wasn't just to produce a new chapter, but to recreate the visceral feeling of the original. The team deliberately leaned into the aesthetic of the first two films, going so far as to create near-exact replicas of the original Alien spaceship Nostromo's sets for the new Maginot spacecraft. While the Xenomorph has become a familiar alien over nine films, Alien: Earth adds five new and dangerous creatures. The Xenomorph has its own story arc and development throughout the show. The new, eight-hour narrative format allows for a deeper exploration of the story and characters. “Not everyone has seen Alien that's seeing Alien: Earth,” Dana notes. The goal is to to tell a story that works for both new and existing fans. "As we go down the road, things will be different, we'll make different choices,” he adds. “But the key is to try to honor the original work. I feel like the audience depends on it. Episode 1 should feel like episode 8.” Dana and Hawley's deep respect for the source material extends to their technical approach. They wanted to capture the original film's sense of existential dread, a feeling heightened by the decision to have the ship crash on Earth. This plot point dictated Dana's plan for the camera work, with little coverage and long takes. They frequently stayed in a two-shot to maintain intimacy and tension. To further evoke the feel of the original, Alien: Earth was shot in 2.3:5 anamorphic, a first for the FX network. Hawley directed episodes one and five, with Dana serving as cinematographer to establish the look of the show. Dana stepped into the director's chair for episodes two, three, seven, and eight. “We can have honest conversations about what we want to do with these episodes,” Dana says. "We have a similar aesthetic.” Dana is also an executive producer on their joint projects, acting as a “creative executive producer” on set. In this role, he preps each episode, serves as the on-set decision-maker and manages second unit photography, ensuring the overall creative vision is maintained. The trust between Dana and Hawley is a fundamental part of their collaboration. They begin by building the world, finding images and discussing the story arc. This partnership, which began on Fargo, has evolved into a creative shorthand. “Noah is the creator, he knows what he wants to do,” Dana shares. “Our shorthand, we get to what the shows will look like and feel like in a very organic way in a few conversations.” Hawley's support allows Dana to push creative boundaries. “One of the most attractive things about this collaboration is that he's got my back and I could push things creatively,” he says. “I try things, I throw it out there, I do whatever. And I think he comes to expect that and likes that.” Dana first moved from cinematographer to director on the show Pretty Little Liars. As a cinematographer, he had strong ideas about camera placement and perspective, which he felt were central to storytelling. On directing, he advises, “You have to do the first one and you have to make mistakes.” Dana believes that a background as an episodic DP provides a unique advantage for directing. “As an episodic DP, you already understand working with different people,

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