In this powerful and honest conversation, Esther and Liz sit down with returning guest and friend Dr. Glenn Siepert — author, artist, and creator of The What If Project. Together, they explore:✨ What it feels like when faith unravels… againGlenn shares the disorienting (and strangely hopeful) experience of realizing that the beliefs that once felt solid no longer hold up — and how returning to the “still small voice” inside changed everything.✨ The difference between the loud voice of outrage and the quiet voice of intuitionWe talk about the internal noise that comes from doom-scrolling, fear, and certainty… and the gentle whisper beneath it that calls us back to our truest selves.✨ How we recreate old fundamentalism in new clothingWhy it’s so easy to transfer judgment, certainty, and arrogance into a “new container” — and how to catch ourselves when we do.✨ Jesus, the Bible, and faith — reimaginedGlenn reflects on how his relationship with scripture and Jesus has changed: less about worshiping the unattainable, more about remembering who we truly are.✨ Why love really is a form of resistanceWe dive deep into what it means to see the humanity in someone whose beliefs feel harmful or deeply triggering — without abandoning our own boundaries or safety.✨ Proximity, curiosity, and the slow inner work of healingWe explore how curiosity dismantles fear, why proximity changes everything, and why inner healing is the only path toward outer compassion.This episode is for anyone who has ever felt disoriented, untethered, angry, hopeful, curious, exhausted, or wide awake.You’re not alone. And there is another way.
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56:33
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56:33
Reimagining Community - Lizz Enns Petters & Esther Joy Goetz
In this third-to-last episode of Deconstructing Mamas, we talk about one of the biggest questions we’ve been asked over the past four years:What does community look like now, after everything we’ve lost?For so many of us, the communities we left behind were built around sameness — shared beliefs, shared behaviors, shared expectations. Belonging depended on staying inside the lines, and when we stepped outside them, everything changed.In this honest conversation, we explore:what we were actually grieving when those communities fell aparthow the loss showed up in our bodies, rhythms, and spiritual livesthe tension of wanting connection again but fearing hurt or misunderstandingwhat we truly need from community now (and what we’re no longer willing to sacrifice)the surprising, tender ways new community has begun to growWe talk about Esther’s spiritual direction cohort, our online book club, and the friends who love us with no agenda. And we talk about Lizz’s experience finding unexpected connection with the moms at her small-town school — community without pressure, performance, or shrinking.If you’re in the in-between — grieving what was and unsure what comes next — this episode is for you.There is a way forward.It may be smaller, softer, slower…but it will be truer.And you’ll know it by how deeply you can breathe there.
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48:36
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48:36
Sacred Rage - Ben Cremer
We sat down with Rev. Benjamin Cremer, writer, pastor, and creator of Into the Gray, to talk about what it looks like to hold sacred anger with open hands.This conversation stretched from “What if I’m wrong?” to “How do we keep from passing our pain along?” We talked about retributive vs. restorative justice, how lament can heal our nervous systems, and why gentleness might just be the most radical form of resistance.Ben reminded us that curiosity is a spiritual practice, lament is a sacred protest, and gentleness—far from weakness—is creativity at its finest.KEY TAKEAWAYS: Curiosity loosens fear. It moves us from I know you’re wrong to What if I’m wrong?Sacred rage has a direction. Aim your anger at harmful systems, not at the people trapped inside them.Lament is how we stop passing pain. Naming grief in community transforms rage into healing.Gentleness is courageous. It interrupts the cycle of violence and control with creativity, humor, and love.Correction comes after connection. Whether in parenting, faith, or community—belonging comes first.Tradition is living faith. Traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.Transformation is slow work. Small acts of connection and compassion still change the world. WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS: Because so many of us are carrying a mix of grief, anger, and exhaustion—and trying to figure out what to do with it.This conversation names that ache and gives it language. It’s an invitation to move from bitterness to belonging, from outrage to imagination.If you’ve ever felt burned by religion but still long for the sacred, if you’re learning to parent or protest differently, or if you’re craving a spirituality wide enough to hold lament and love—this one’s for you.
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1:12:19
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1:12:19
Learning to Trust What we Feel - Lizz Enns Petters & Esther Joy Goetz
In this vulnerable and deeply human conversation, Esther and Lizz open up about the long, complicated process of learning to trust their emotions — after being raised in systems that taught them not to.They talk about what it means to rebuild emotional safety after high-control religion, where feelings were often dismissed as sinful, deceptive, or dangerous. Together, they explore how learning to honor their emotions has transformed their faith, relationships, and parenting.This episode is both tender and raw — an honest look at the messy, holy work of coming home to yourself.Key Themes & TakeawaysEmotions Aren’t Enemies, They’re Messengers After years of hearing “faith over feeling,” both hosts are reclaiming their emotions as sacred — not something to suppress, but something to listen to. Righteous Anger as a Force for Good Liz shares how anger has become a holy motivator for change — a muscle she’s still learning to use wisely and courageously.Safety, Authenticity & the Nervous System They discuss the toll of living in constant spiritual and emotional high alert — and what happens when the body finally realizes it was never truly safe.From Faking It to Feeling It Liz’s story of exhaustion from “faking it” in faith spaces resonates with so many listeners who’ve masked their true selves to belong.Learning to Feel Safe With Ourselves Esther shares how her own healing journey has brought her to a surprising place: genuine safety in her own presence — no longer fearing the God who was always “watching,” but resting in love itself.Reclaiming the “Too Much” Self Together they celebrate the parts of themselves once labeled “too emotional,” “too intense,” or “too much.” As Esther says, “I’m not someone to hide — I’m someone to honor.”Why This Episode MattersIf you were ever told your emotions were untrustworthy, that your heart was deceitful, or that safety could only be found outside yourself — this episode will meet you right where you are.Esther and Liz remind us that feelings are not flaws. They are sacred signals that lead us toward wholeness, self-trust, and the kind of peace that can’t be forced.
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1:04:30
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1:04:30
Walking the Middle Path - Dr. Camden Morgante
Licensed psychologist and author Dr. Camden Morgante joins us to explore the “middle path” from DBT and how it reshapes faith, nervous-system healing, sexuality, and parenting after high-control religion. We talk about spiritual bypassing versus true healing, pendulation in EMDR, setting wise boundaries, and cultivating a values-based sexual ethic. The middle path costs something. It also grows deep roots.In this episode you’ll hear aboutWhat “walking the middle path” means and why both-and thinking is essential in deconstructionSigns your healing is taking hold: cognitive flexibility, compassion, curiosity, less shameConnection-based parenting and becoming a safe place for our kidsBoundaries that honor your body when rooms feel polarizingSpiritual bypassing vs. embodied, grief-honoring faithEMDR’s pendulation and widening the window of toleranceBuilding a values-based sexual ethic after purity cultureLetting healing be slow, playful, and non-linearAbout our guest Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist, coach, speaker, and author of Recovering from Purity Culture. She writes the Substack Walking the Middle Path, helping readers practice both-and thinking in faith and life. She lives in Knoxville, TN with her family.Connect with Dr. CamdenWebsite: drcamden.comSubstack: https://drcamden.substack.com/Socials: @drcamdenBook: Recovering from Purity Culture
If you are trying to figure out how to navigate the tricky tightrope of parenting while you have questions, doubts and wonderings about your spiritual journey, this podcast is for you. It doesn't matter if your kids are smalls, middles, or bigs. We will explore what and how we are deconstructing from churchianity, harmful belief systems, and diving deep into the ways we can work this out in parenthood. We will also work through ideas for reconstructing a space for our families to thrive under new systems of love and freedom. We can't wait to bring you some hope that you are not alone and that it's really okay, even good, to explore all the possibilities that may have felt closed off in the past. This podcast will offer you grace and space to be exactly where you are and who you are. We are glad you are here.
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