Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

In this very special episode, Dr. Jacob Ham and associate therapist Elizabeth Ferreira join me to discuss their work as trauma therapists. They talk openly about the messy, unglamorous reality of struggle, mistakes, and repair that characterizes trauma work, its nature as both art and science, how their work has changed over time, and what they’ve learned along the way. Topics include self-disclosure, working with shame and grief, dealing with situations where the client wants an apology, the difference between trauma work and more manualized approaches, therapist training and supervision, and “polishing the mirror.” 

I loved listening to Dr. Ham and Elizabeth talk during this episode. It’s a truly unique one, and I hope you enjoy it. 

About our Guest: Dr. Jacob Ham is a clinical psychologist, Associate Clinical Professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, and the Director of the Center for Complex Trauma there. He's the clinician featured in Stephanie Foo’s wonderful book What My Bones Know.

Key Topics : 

0:00: Introduction and nervousness

6:21: The role of disclosure

11:34: Mistakes, rupture, and repair

23:20: Sharing grief

33:04: Supervision and parallel process 

36:29: Therapy as an art form

47:52: Structure, flexibility, and 'opening the hand'

52:50: A listener question: how to let it all go

1:02:40: How trauma work changes you

1:07:46: Recap

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Dr. Rick and Forrest explore the lessons we can learn from two of Humanistic psychology’s more challenging branches: existential psychology and transpersonal psychology. Existential psychology asks what it means to build a meaningful life in the face of death, while Transpersonal psychology wonders if the individual self is what we should be so focused on. Forrest and Rick focus on the work of Rollo May, Irvin Yalom, Abraham Maslow, and Stanislav Grof, and major themes include freedom, agency, anxiety, the limits of the “self,” and how confronting these can lead to a fuller and more meaningful life. 

Rick’s Self-Worth Course: Starts this week! In this 6-week online course, Rick will guide you in practical, research-backed ways to release old patterns and grow a lasting sense of confidence, kindness toward yourself, and genuine self-worth. Learn more at RickHanson.com/worthy and use coupon code BeingWell25 to receive a 25% discount.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro and recap of humanistic psychology

6:12: History and context of existential psychology

12:04: Three important lessons from existentialism

26:03: Agency and meaning making within existential psychology

38:38: Overview of transpersonal psychology

1:00:43: Three important lessons from transpersonal psychology

1:11:14: Closing reflections, and a one word summary

1:14:07: Recap

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Why don’t we choose the things we know are good for us? It’s usually because we’re struggling with self-regulation, one of the most important (and most misunderstood) skills out there. In today’s episode, Forrest talks with Eric Zimmer about what healthy self-regulation actually looks like,  the gap between insight and action, how shame can derail us, and why most change comes down to small steps taken consistently. They discuss how to figure out what actually matters to you vs. what you want right now, the tension between acceptance and change, and how to get back on track after a slip without making it worse.

About our Guest: Eric Zimmer is the creator of The One You Feed, an award-winning podcast with over 50 million downloads. He’s also the author of the new book, How a Little Becomes a Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro: Why is self-regulation so important?

4:32: Moving from insight to action

8:14: Values versus desires

14:25: Eric’s sobriety journey

20:57: Changing our relationship to shame

32:05: When to accept things as they are, and when to move from acceptance to change 

38:17: Choosing the more useful meaning

42:51: How to get over self-doubt

46:41: Having a backup plan for when things go sideways

53:54: Balancing striving with non-craving

1:06:16: Recap

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Why is it so hard for us to do what we actually want to do? In this episode, Forrest explains the hidden structure of self-abandonment: how shame drives the loop, how the loop produces more shame, and how the inner critic uses a “can’t win” situation to keep us stuck. Then he and Dr. Rick explore what actually breaks the cycle, including the role of anger, the difference between shame and grief, self-compassion, and what it really means to get on your own side.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro and overview of self-abandonment

4:38: What are we abandoning?

8:30: The self-abandonment loop

21:55: How a parts model can help us understand the shame

26:20: The double-bind of self-criticism

32:56: How to get out of the double-bind

41:34: Anger and resentment

49:47: Moving from shame to grief

56:15: Breaking the self-abandonment loop

1:10:22: Recap

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Forrest is joined by associate therapist and his fiancée Elizabeth Ferreira for an honest, personal conversation about what it's actually like to be in a relationship when one partner is living with trauma, complex PTSD, or another ongoing mental health challenge. Drawing on their experience together, they discuss supporting without enabling, avoiding power imbalances, managing resentment, dealing with moments of frustration, and the importance of reciprocity. Elizabeth has some thoughts about the DSM. Forrest shares about how Elizabeth has supported him. It’s a good one.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro and Elizabeth’s overview

5:50: How trauma shapes you

9:05: How Elizabeth found safety in her relationship with Forrest

11:12: How the relationship helped Forrest grow

15:44: Self-discovery through relationship

21:19: How to effectively support a partner with mental illness

33:42: Being ‘sturdy’

39:18: Navigating criticism

43:30: Communicating without resentment or shame

54:57: Avoiding stigma, and why Elizabeth wants to throw the DSM out the window

59:52: Not buying in to the smallest version of your partner

1:04:27: Recap

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