Doc Walks

Keith and his wife caught it on a Tuesday night date night. Ben and his wife skipped work to see it in a theater, in the middle of the day. When was the last time a three-hour documentary caught the attention of just about everyone around? Just about never—so we had to talk about it. This week it's just the two of us unpacking YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING, the Nathan Fielder and Lance Oppenheim film about Elizabeth Holmes, shot in the weeks before she reported to prison. It's a big-idea access movie that puts documentary technique under a warped microscope. One of us calls it one of the greatest pieces of art in years. The other can't stop noticing the cameras. We argue over a jumped line, long lenses, and a baby shot through a crib, and whether Oppenheim's polished style (see SPERMWORLD and REN FAIRE) reads as artifice. Toss in Fielder's THE REHEARSAL brand of authenticity-poking and you get a very volatile mix. We debate whether SHERMAN'S MARCH or HOW TO WITH JOHN WILSON is the "real" version of on-camera awkwardness. So much to unpack in this film, about the father,and the ex, and how it handles Billy Evans asking for money, and whether documentary subjects should get paid. Should it get a Best Picture nod? A Best Documentary nod? Both? Spoilers are fair game, but Keith says this movie can't really be spoiled. Ben says skip work and you won't believe your eyes. Plus: the word "can," that icky car ride to prison, and why we think the film is really about you, yes you—the audience.
DISCUSSION LINKS:
YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING (2026) | SHERMAN'S MARCH (1985) | HOW TO WITH JOHN WILSON (2020) | THE REHEARSAL (2022) | REN FAIRE (2024) | SPERMWORLD (2024)
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Skipping work to see a documentary
00:41 Unfettered access and a stunning document
01:41 Is it a documentary?
02:24 Access, ethics and authenticity
02:54 Awards talk and the meaning of "can"
04:00 A mirror to the audience
04:35 Straight documentary, then recreation (spoilers)
05:14 Oppenheim's calling card: SPERMWORLD and REN FAIRE
06:17 Nathan Fielder meets Elizabeth Holmes
07:26 The couch scene and the jumped line
09:03 HOW TO WITH JOHN WILSON vs. a full crew
09:43 The crib shot
10:41 Coming in cold on Holmes
11:02 THE REHEARSAL
11:45 Is SHERMAN'S MARCH a documentary?
12:36 Professional liars
12:55 The dad and the ex nobody follows up with
14:18 The dropped assault storyline
15:04 Billy Evans and the money ask
16:04 Should documentary subjects be paid?
16:44 The car ride to prison
17:37 What the movie is really about
18:24 Go see it and tell us how you feel

A seasoned mainstay of the LA documentary scene, Brett Morgen takes Keith for a walk around his charming Rustic Canyon neighborhood. Brett is the filmmaker behind major releases like MOONAGE DAYDREAM, JANE, COBAIN: MONTAGE OF HECK, ON THE ROPES, and the animated Hollywood tale, THE KID STAYS IN THE PICTURE. Just two weeks into his empty-nester era and newly back in his house, post-LA-fires, Brett is ready to walk and doc. 
He opens up about his MOONAGE DAYDREAM process, how the film was inspired by Bowie's death, and how for him, docmaking is a writing exercise—that the edit room is about the juxtaposition of shots—and real storytelling happens before all that.
Keith confesses that Brett's approach to re-creation in CHICAGO 10 opened up creative opportunities, but Brett defers to Flaherty and NANOOK OF THE NORTH, sparking a question of authenticity, documentary ethics, and why the "doc police" are waiting to come for you. The heart of this walk is all about the heart attack that Brett suffered at a TOWER screening that bonded him and Keith for life. And he ends up sharing what David Bowie taught him about living once he came out the other side. Plus: THE SWORD IN THE STONE, WILLY WONKA, the future of immersive audience experiences (stadium edition), and advice for a 21-year-old musician that we can all take to heart.
DISCUSSION LINKS:
ON THE ROPES (1999) | THE KID STAYS IN THE PICTURE (2002) | CHICAGO 10 (2007) | CROSSFIRE HURRICANE (2012) | COBAIN: MONTAGE OF HECK (2015) | TOWER (2016) | JANE (2017) | MOONAGE DAYDREAM (2022) | ROADRUNNER: A FILM ABOUT ANTHONY BOURDAIN (2021) | RICOCHET (1984) | ZIGGY STARDUST AND THE SPIDERS FROM MARS (1983) | THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH (1976) | NANOOK OF THE NORTH (1922) | WALTZ WITH BASHIR (2008) | THE EYES OF ME (2009) | THE SWORD IN THE STONE (1963) | WILLY WONKA & THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY (1971)
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Keith's intro from the Uber
01:43 Rustic Canyon
02:14 The mudslide that took Brett's house
03:26 Near misses, and Keith's intro to Brett
05:09 Empty nester, a little under the weather
06:02 How MOONAGE DAYDREAM started in Austin
08:29 The Bowie archive and "the audience created David"
11:02 Bowie, the Velvet Underground and postmodernism
13:17 RICOCHET and the Southeast Asia footage
16:04 Writing the movie before the edit room
17:36 The Odyssey, a train from Albuquerque and the hero's journey
20:36 Brian Eno as Yoda
21:25 CHICAGO 10 as the go-ahead for TOWER
23:07 Is it still nonfiction? THE KID STAYS IN THE PICTURE
25:02 CHICAGO 10's cast and the mo-cap problem
28:10 NANOOK OF THE NORTH and the doc police
30:18 The New York Times, AI and why all documentaries lie
34:16 All art is autobiography
38:50 Turning down bio docs
39:43 What's changed in 25 years of documentary
42:24 Theatrical, streaming and Keith's first film
44:17 The IMAX math
45:47 Arenas, three screens and a new business model
50:10 The day we met
55:54 Coma, a Marvel pilot and the aftermath
59:34 What Bowie taught him
1:02:17 Gateway drug films
1:04:50 Advice for emerging filmmakers
1:07:47 Goodbyes

Episode 75, the Diamond Jubilee, and it's just the two of us. With no guest, with no safety net or buffer, this one finds Ben feeling both naked and vulnerable. But Keith is there to calm his nerves with: a full craft episode, with three buckets.
First bucket up, OBSERVATIONAL FILMMAKING. What's right & wrong about fly-on-the-wall as a premise and who gets it right. Ben walks through his plan for an upcoming shoot, and Keith pokes at whether that's observation at all. We'll talk Wiseman and the Maysles and turn to our experiences with 100-plus days hanging out with teenagers at the Texas School for the Blind for Keith's THE EYES OF ME; and one great day on Ben's undergrad short DAY WITH JOHN.
Bucket two: RE-CREATION. Keith's got opinions. And a time-tested theory that re-cre (as well as animation) works when it's A-roll and fails as a B-roll Band-Aid. We get into our work on TOWER, DEAR MR. BRODY, and CALLS TO OKIES—and widen out to discuss the subjects and objects of NANOOK OF THE NORTH, THE THIN BLUE LINE and THE ACT OF KILLING. Speaking of subjectivity, Keith drops the bold claim that re-creation is more truthful than observation because it announces itself and Ben has thoughts.
Bucket three, for today was meant to be ARCHIVAL STORYTELLING.  But as episode 75 runs out of road, we punt on an archival deep-dive for a future episode. So, call this one: 2 out of 3 buckets.
Plus: a callback to Barlow Jacobs & Pete Muller; we start counting steps; and we close with some in-theater, under-the-radar recs: WTO/99 and FLAG DAY.
DISCUSSION LINKS:
THE EYES OF ME (2009) | DAY WITH JOHN (2002) | SALESMAN (1969) | GIMME SHELTER (1970) | TOWER (2016) | DEAR MR. BRODY (2022) | CALLS TO OKIES: THE PARK GRUBBS STORY (2015) | NANOOK OF THE NORTH (1922) | THE VOYAGE OUT (2025) | THE THIN BLUE LINE (1988) | THE ACT OF KILLING (2012) | LA 92 (2017) | LET THE FIRE BURN (2013) | BUCKS HARBOR (2026) | WTO/99 (2025) | FLAG DAY (2026)
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Cold open: selfie sticks and old live oaks
00:55 Episode 75, and no guest
02:00 Why we're doing a craft episode
02:30 The step counter starts now
03:30 Three buckets: observation, recreation, archival
04:15 The Diamond Jubilee and the fire department boats
06:00 Bucket one: what is observational filmmaking?
07:00 Ben's upcoming shoot: a podcast, a conference, a plan
10:30 Be Fred Wiseman for a minute
15:30 People vs. places
17:00 THE EYES OF ME: 100 days at the Texas School for the Blind
19:30 DAY WITH JOHN and learning to direct
23:30 Casting, premise and structure
27:00 The Maysles, SALESMAN and "the Al of this combo"
29:00 Quickfire advice on observation: patience
30:30 Your temperament is how you see the world
32:00 Bucket two: recreation
34:00 TOWER and DEAR MR. BRODY
38:30 Recreation works as A-roll, fails as B-roll
42:30 CALLS TO OKIES and imagining the character
45:30 NANOOK OF THE NORTH and the ethics of artifice
50:00 THE VOYAGE OUT and "recreation is more true than observation"
52:30 Why fiction can tell you more about an era
54:00 Not "should you?" but "how?"
55:30 THE THIN BLUE LINE
57:00 THE ACT OF KILLING
1:00:30 Replaying the walk on the drive home
1:01:00 Bucket three: archival (saved for later)
1:02:30 Recs: WTO/99
1:03:50 Recs: FLAG DAY
1:06:00 Thank-yous and sign-off

If you're looking for a beer and a sandwich you're in the right place… welcome to Red Hook, Brooklyn, home of dock workers and DocWalkers—meet Jeremy Workman. Jeremy is the director behind the arthouse success story, SECRET MALL APARTMENT. He's also known for LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD, and this year's festival hit, SCHOOL FOR DEFECTORS. 
When thunder rolls in, we duck into the Red Hook Lobster Pound for a beer, and Jeremy shares his experiences as a second-generation filmmaker (shoutout Chuck Workman) and a deeply experienced trailer-cutter, name-dropping Tarantino, Scorsese, and Maitland along the way.
But today's all about the secrets to success in documentary self-distribution. If you haven't seen SECRET MALL APARTMENT, go watch it on Netflix—Jeremy shares the long and self-designed road that got it there. After a SXSW premiere, SECRET MALL APARTMENT had no offers, so Jeremy and his team released it themselves, pushing the "treatise on art" to more than 300 theaters, grossing a million bucks, before landing on Netflix's top five. His take on most distributors? Not kind.
 We also get into how Jeremy funds his films with a tight circle of private investors, his collaborations with Jesse Eisenberg, why a seven-figure sale of LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD didn't feel like a win, and the Ed Pressman memorial that led him straight to Flaco the owl, star of Penny Lane's WILD INSIDE. Plus: how to survive festival rejection (say yes to yourself); inspiration via early Errol Morris, Gary Hustwit, and MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA; and why we need Chris Smith on this show. We end the way every DocWalk should: an Italian combo, plus sopressata from Defonte's Sandwich Shop.
 
DISCUSSION LINKS:
SECRET MALL APARTMENT (2024) | SCHOOL FOR DEFECTORS (2026) | LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD (2021) | THE WORLD BEFORE YOUR FEET (2018) | WILD INSIDE (2026) | AMERICAN PACHUCO: THE LEGEND OF LUIS VALDEZ (2026) | WHO MOVES AMERICA (2026) | SHERMAN'S MARCH (1985) | DEAR MR. BRODY (2021) | TOWER (2016) | THE EYES OF ME (2009) | WHAT IS CINEMA? (2013) | THANK YOU VERY MUCH (2023) | MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA (1929) | GATES OF HEAVEN (1978) | THE THIN BLUE LINE (1988) | THEREMIN: AN ELECTRONIC ODYSSEY (1993)
 
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Walking Red Hook, Brooklyn
01:11 Meet Jeremy Workman
02:54 SECRET MALL APARTMENT and the self-distribution tease
03:25 How Keith met Jeremy: the DEAR MR. BRODY trailer
04:39 From college job to studio trailers
06:44 Wheelhouse Creative and trailers for documentaries
08:30 Rain, Van Brunt Street and the Red Hook Lobster Pound
11:40 Ed Pressman and a surprise owl
13:51 Developing trailer editors
15:08 Trailers on Jeremy's desk: SHERMAN'S MARCH, WILD INSIDE, WHO MOVES AMERICA
17:29 A synchronicity: the WHAT IS CINEMA? DVD
19:43 Growing up the son of Chuck Workman
22:07 What his father taught him about money and craft
23:50 SECRET MALL APARTMENT in a nutshell
27:21 Twenty-five hours of footage on a $100 camera
28:51 Meeting Michael Townsend in Athens
31:17 Raising money without grants
33:27 Why most distributors disappoint
36:15 Selling LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD: was that a win?
39:40 The SXSW premiere and the decision to self-release
41:42 300 theaters, $1 million and Netflix
45:11 The next chapter: SCHOOL FOR DEFECTORS and consulting
46:08 Gary Hustwit and rethinking the doc industry
47:59 Penny Lane, Gene Gallerano and the dream team
48:38 Advice for first-time filmmakers: say yes to yourself
51:21 What draws Jeremy to a story
52:16 Industrial Red Hook
54:12 Gateway docs: Errol Morris, MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA, THEREMIN
56:35 Dream collaborator: Chris Smith
57:57 The Defonte's finale
58:59 What's next, including the Calgary jury
1:00:05 Next week: our 75th episode

You may remember Dana Reilly, New York filmmaker, and UT Radio-TV-Film alum from our walk around Main Street at Sundance this year. Well, she's back in Austin to present her first feature, OUR BODY ELECTRIC, at the AFS Cinema. 
From nimbus clouds, to a walk around the DAZED AND CONFUSED baseball diamond, Dana shares the stories that got her to this auspicious moment at the Northwest park trail. From her expat childhood in London (Chris Columbus' kids went to her school) to PROMISES and the classroom AV cart that hooked her on docs, to Brown, the Washington Post Brand Studio and a quarter-life crisis that landed her in Austin for grad school and an impactful stint at Go-Valley. Keith edited her thesis doc, FAVORITE DAUGHTER—a loving portrait of her mom and her grandmother quarantining together in a Tribeca apartment during COVID. It went from a messy, beautiful jumble to Telluride and MTV Documentary Films (thank you Sheila Nevins!) 
Then the walk goes sideways/back in time. Medieval LARPers take over the park, and pull our attention. Meet the Vinland Texas Vikings, sword-fighting under the Texas sun with helmets, shields and their own strict code of conduct… Dana shares the spotlight for a few moments before we re-center on OUR BODY ELECTRIC.
This episode features a trailer for the film, which follows three women bodybuilders vying for the Ms. Olympia title. And we conclude the walk at the AFS Cinema for the post-screening Q&A… 
When it comes to indie doc-making, Dana tells it like it is, "no one's comin' to save you." Not body-builders, not viking LARPers—no one, but you (& your friends at DocWalks).
 
DISCUSSION LINKS:
OUR BODY ELECTRIC (2026) | FAVORITE DAUGHTER (2022) | DEAR MR. BRODY (2022) | DAZED AND CONFUSED (1993) | SLACKER (1990) | EL MARIACHI (1992) | SEVEN UP! (1964) | PROMISES (2001) | PUMPING IRON (1977) | PUMPING IRON II: THE WOMEN (1985)
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Clouds, nimbus puns and a walk in Northwest Park
01:00 Hunting for the DAZED AND CONFUSED baseball field
02:00 Dana Reilly joins us ahead of her AFS Cinema screening
03:00 Born in New York, raised in London
05:00 Ten years at an American school abroad
06:00 SEVEN UP! and Keith's gateway drug
06:30 Documentaries as classroom: the AV cart and PROMISES
08:00 Brown, media criticism and the idea that video is authored
09:45 Post-college New York and the Washington Post Brand Studio
11:00 The quarter-life crisis that led to UT
11:45 Found it: the DAZED AND CONFUSED field
12:30 Why Wiley Wiggins couldn't pitch
14:30 Why Austin, and why UT's hybrid program
17:00 Falling in love with teaching
17:45 FAVORITE DAUGHTER: the thesis about her mom and grandmother
19:00 COVID, Go-Valley and working with Keith
20:30 Editing the beautiful jumble
22:30 Balancing what an audience wants with what Dana wants
24:30 Medieval LARPers: meet the Vinland Texas Vikings
32:30 Back to FAVORITE DAUGHTER and the odd-couple dynamic
33:30 Sheila Nevins, MTV Documentary Films and Telluride
34:45 The hardest part: connecting with an audience
36:00 The long road of OUR BODY ELECTRIC and teaching in New York
37:30 Setting up OUR BODY ELECTRIC and the Olympia
39:00 One bright light, one concern
40:00 Breathe in before you breathe out
41:00 Throwing to the clip