2 Pastors and a Mic

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we sit down with Bishop Shawn from Cameroon, Africa for one of the most powerful and eye-opening conversations we’ve had on the podcast.

We talk about:
• Deconstructing fear-based theology
• How colonialism distorted the image of God in Africa
• Inclusion, identity, and the finished work of Christ
• Recognizing royalty in every person
• What it means to truly “see Jesus in others”
• Entrepreneurship, ministry, and funding Kingdom work without manipulation
• Writing the Gospel in a language the world can understand

Bishop Shawn shares incredible wisdom about union with God, healing cultural wounds, and the Gospel as a message of restoration for individuals, families, and entire nations.

00:00 - Welcome & Introducing Bishop Shawn
01:16 - First Guest from Africa
02:44 - Bishop Shawn’s Journey Into Ministry
04:49 - Seeing Jesus Beyond Religion
06:02 - Deconstruction & Colonial Christianity in Africa
08:01 - Teaching Christ Through Culture
09:27 - Christianity & African Identity
11:20 - Recognizing Royalty in People
12:40 - The Guatemala Orphanage Story
13:58 - Identity, Royalty & the Family of God
15:31 - Affirmation Before Performance
16:12 - Ministry & Entrepreneurship
18:18 - Writing Books & Teaching the Gospel
20:00 - “I Think Myself Happy” Explained
21:50 - Why Historical Context Matters
22:27 - Where to Find Bishop Shawn’s Content
23:10 - “I See Jesus In You” Culture
24:06 - Freedom From Intimidation
25:24 - Seeing Jesus in Everyone
26:02 - Final Thoughts & Closing Blessing

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we unpack 4 signs that you’re actually moving in the right direction spiritually, emotionally, and mentally.

After weeks of conversations around “Godly Thought or Trauma Response,” we wanted to answer one of the biggest questions we’ve been getting:
“How do I know I’m healing?”
“How do I know I’m growing?”
“How do I know I’m actually becoming free?”

This conversation is deeply personal as we continue navigating grief, leadership, deconstruction, healing, and learning how to live from love instead of fear.

In this episode, we discuss:
• Why fear is no longer our motivation
• Spiritual disciplines through love instead of pressure
• Vulnerability vs transparency
• Healing through safe connection
• How to hold tension without panic
• Deconstruction, curiosity, and learning to rethink theology
• Letting go of the need for approval
• Finding identity rooted in love instead of performance

We also share some updates about upcoming podcast episodes, interviews with Bill Vanderbush and Dr. Shawn Smith, and what’s ahead this summer for the podcast.

00:00 - Intro & Processing Grief
02:15 - Four Signs You’re Moving in the Right Direction
03:34 - Sign #1: Less Motivated by Fear
04:22 - Spiritual Disciplines Without Fear
05:01 - Fear, Hell, and Financial Freedom
06:26 - Generosity Flowing From Love
07:21 - Love Removes Fear
09:00 - Fear May Whisper, But It Doesn’t Lead
09:47 - Sign #2: Honest About Your Humanity
10:16 - Transparency vs Vulnerability
10:49 - Healing Happens When You’re Heard
11:16 - “I’m Okay, But I’m Not Okay”
12:00 - Why “How Are You?” Matters Differently in Ukrainian Culture
13:53 - Sign #3: Holding Tension Without Panic
14:16 - Deconstruction, Uncertainty & Emotional Processing
15:28 - Letting People Process at Their Own Pace
16:14 - Curiosity, Teachability & Seeing God Better
17:02 - Ted Lasso, Curiosity & Less Judgment
17:24 - Sign #4: Rooted in Love, Not Approval
17:39 - Letting Go of Needing Everyone’s Approval
18:21 - Identity as Sons & Daughters of God
19:02 - Recap: Four Signs You’re Healing & Growing
19:19 - Upcoming Podcast Guests & Summer Series
21:26 - Final Encouragement & Closing Thoughts

This episode is different. After five years of never missing a week, we suddenly disappeared for two weeks…

Two weeks ago, we lost one of our best friends — Chris Crawford — unexpectedly at just 46 years old. In this episode, we sit down not with polished answers or a sermon outline, but simply as two grieving friends trying to process heartbreak in real time.

We talk honestly about:
What grief actually feels like
How loss comes in waves
The emotional weight of showing up when you don’t want to
Why presence matters more than words
The tension of holding hope and heartbreak at the same time
Some of the unhelpful things people say to grieving people (even with good intentions)
Why we felt it was important not to just “move on” too quickly

This is a conversation about friendship, loss, pain, love, and learning how to sit with grief instead of trying to fix it.

If you’re grieving right now…
If someone you love is grieving…
Or if you simply need permission to not be okay for a while…
we hope this episode reminds you that you’re not alone.

More than anything, this conversation reminded us: Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is simply show up.

00:00 - We’re Back After Tragedy
00:36 - Missing Our First Podcast Weeks in 5 Years
01:07 - Losing One of Our Best Friends
03:03 - How Grief Comes in Waves
04:36 - The Closest Loss We’ve Ever Experienced
05:19 - The Shock of Losing Chris at 46
07:11 - Writing Through Grief & Journaling
08:26 - Why Christians Struggle With Grief
08:58 - Preaching While Grieving
10:24 - Holding Hope and Heartbreak Together
11:54 - Grieving Without Easy Answers
13:14 - The Tension of Comforting People
15:13 - Presence Matters More Than Words
15:45 - A Message That Encouraged Us
18:33 - Grief, Vulnerability & Being Real
20:15 - Show Up for Someone This Week
20:50 - Never Underestimate Presence
21:43 - What’s Next for the Podcast
22:08 - Final Thoughts & Encouragement

What if what you’ve been calling “meekness”... isn’t actually meekness at all?

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we unpack the difference between true biblical meekness and something many of us have unknowingly lived in—self-abandonment.

For years, we’ve been taught that being quiet, agreeable, and selfless is spiritual. But what if constantly apologizing, shrinking your voice, and avoiding conflict isn’t humility… it’s a trauma response?

We get honest about:
Why so many people struggle to speak up or set boundaries
The subtle ways self-abandonment shows up (you probably do these without realizing it)
The fear underneath it all—rejection, conflict, and being “too much”
Why “no” is a complete sentence (and why that’s so hard for us)
What meekness actually looks like through the life of Jesus

This one gets personal. We share our own struggles with over-apologizing, people-pleasing, and learning to stop shrinking ourselves in relationships.

If you’ve ever felt like:
“I don’t want to bother anyone…”
“Sorry, this might be a dumb question…”
“I’ll just stay quiet to keep the peace…”
…this episode is for you.

Because the truth is: Meekness isn’t weakness. It’s strength under control. And you were never meant to disappear to be accepted.

00:00 - Welcome Back and Podcast Consistency
01:58 - Learning to Celebrate Yourself
02:50 - This Week’s Topic: Meekness vs. Self-Abandonment
03:43 - What Self-Abandonment Looks Like
05:11 - Channock on Feeling Meek but Being Seen as Bold
06:47 - Over-Apologizing and Shrinking Yourself
08:01 - “I Know You’re Busy” and Other Subtle Self-Abandonment Patterns
09:19 - Why “No” Should Be a Complete Sentence
10:05 - Boundaries, Family Pressure, and Over-Explaining
11:06 - Why We Struggle to Say No
12:31 - The Fear Beneath Self-Abandonment
14:23 - What Meekness Actually Is
15:12 - Strength Under Control in the Life of Jesus
16:20 - Why Self-Abandonment Feels So Hard
17:57 - A Simple Shift: Stop Starting with “Sorry”
18:43 - Meekness Does Not Mean Disappearing
19:15 - Final Encouragement to Stop Shrinking Yourself
20:34 - Reflecting on Self-Abandonment in Real Life
21:16 - You’re Loved and There’s Nothing You Can Do About It

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we talk about something that gets praised all the time in church culture—but often hides a much deeper issue: productivity without rest.

A lot of us were taught that being busy means being faithful.
That doing more means you care more.
That slowing down feels lazy.
That resting means you are falling behind.

But what if that constant need to produce is not obedience at all? What if it is actually a trauma response?

This week, Cory and Channock unpack the difference between healthy discipline and unhealthy productivity, and why so many of us have tied our worth to our output. They talk honestly about the pressure to always be doing more, the fear of being seen as lazy, the struggle to stop striving, and how rest can feel uncomfortable when your identity has been built around performance.

They also share personal stories about ministry, family, work ethic, and the inner voices that make rest feel irresponsible—even when rest is exactly what is needed.

In this episode:
Why productivity is often praised as spirituality
How performance can become tied to identity
The fear of being perceived as lazy
Why rest can feel uncomfortable and even unsafe
How childhood and church culture shape our work habits
The difference between inactivity and true rest
What Jesus modeled instead of constant striving
Simple practical ways to begin choosing rest without guilt

This episode is for the person who feels guilty slowing down…
For the one who always feels like they should be doing more…
For the one who has confused exhaustion with faithfulness.

Sometimes the most spiritual thing you can do is stop striving.

00:00 - Welcome Back 
02:17 - Why Short-Form Theology Feels Frustrating
02:50 - Godly Thought or Trauma Response Series Recap
03:41 - Processing Last Week’s Hypervigilance Episode
05:45 - This Week’s Topic: Productivity vs. Rest
06:30 - When Busyness Gets Praised as Spirituality
07:45 - Can the Performance Bug Ever Go Away?
08:59 - What If Productivity Is a Trauma Response?
09:20 - Channock on the Fear of Being Seen as Lazy
11:27 - The Garage Door Story and Hidden Pressure
14:01 - Cory on Childhood Roots of Overworking
16:30 - When Productivity Becomes Identity
19:06 - What Rest Actually Looks Like
19:51 - Three Things Jesus Never Did
20:28 - Finding Life Outside of Productivity
21:30 - Ministry, Relife, and Protecting Family
23:50 - Rest Is Peace in the Middle of Activity
24:11 - Simple Practices to Start Resting
25:52 - Phone Boundaries and Learning Presence
26:40 - You Are Valuable Without Proving It
27:04 - Final Encouragement and Closing