2 Pastors and a Mic

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we sit down with our friend Bill Vanderbush for one of the most honest, thought-provoking, and hope-filled conversations we’ve had on the podcast.

We talk about union with Christ, the finished work of Jesus, the roots of ancient Christianity, and why so many people are rediscovering the goodness of God in a fresh way. Bill shares powerful insights from his newest books, opens up about the current state of the Church, and challenges fear-based theology with a Gospel centered on love, identity, and belonging.

This conversation explores:
• The ancient roots of union theology
• Why the Gospel became more about what we do than what Jesus has done
• The Council of Nicaea, church history, and modern Christianity
• Fear, punishment, and the goodness of God
• Why people are deconstructing unhealthy theology
• Identity, sonship, and knowing God as Father
• The difference between religion and authentic relationship with Jesus
• Why “God is better than you think” changes everything

Whether you’re deconstructing old beliefs, rediscovering your faith, or simply hungry for deeper conversations about Jesus, this episode is packed with wisdom, grace, and hope.

00:42 - Bill’s Influence on the Podcast
02:44 - Writing for Future Generations
03:41 - The Sound of Your Blood Explained
05:13 - Reaching Deconstructed & New Age Audiences
06:00 - Union Begins in Genesis
07:42 - Identity, Union & Knowing Who You Are
09:25 - Ancient Christianity & Church History
11:23 - How Christianity Became Complicated
13:25 - Salvation, Belief & the Finished Work
15:33 - Ancient Creeds vs Modern Theology
17:23 - Living From Union With Christ
18:29 - Simplifying the Gospel Like Jesus
19:46 - Are We Headed Toward Another Church Council?
21:06 - Returning to a Christ-Centered Gospel
22:30 - Fear-Based Theology & Punishment
24:11 - Honoring Past Generations While Growing
26:16 - The Problem With “Heresy Hunting”
27:22 - God Is Better Than You Think
28:12 - Asking Jesus Directly
29:54 - Rediscovering Wonder & Childlike Faith
32:40 - Healing Orphan Thinking & Family Wounds
33:41 - Where to Find Bill Vanderbush
34:35 - Final Thoughts on God’s Goodness
35:42 - “You’re Loved & There’s Nothing You Can Do About It”

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we sit down with Bishop Shawn from Cameroon, Africa for one of the most powerful and eye-opening conversations we’ve had on the podcast.

We talk about:
• Deconstructing fear-based theology
• How colonialism distorted the image of God in Africa
• Inclusion, identity, and the finished work of Christ
• Recognizing royalty in every person
• What it means to truly “see Jesus in others”
• Entrepreneurship, ministry, and funding Kingdom work without manipulation
• Writing the Gospel in a language the world can understand

Bishop Shawn shares incredible wisdom about union with God, healing cultural wounds, and the Gospel as a message of restoration for individuals, families, and entire nations.

00:00 - Welcome & Introducing Bishop Shawn
01:16 - First Guest from Africa
02:44 - Bishop Shawn’s Journey Into Ministry
04:49 - Seeing Jesus Beyond Religion
06:02 - Deconstruction & Colonial Christianity in Africa
08:01 - Teaching Christ Through Culture
09:27 - Christianity & African Identity
11:20 - Recognizing Royalty in People
12:40 - The Guatemala Orphanage Story
13:58 - Identity, Royalty & the Family of God
15:31 - Affirmation Before Performance
16:12 - Ministry & Entrepreneurship
18:18 - Writing Books & Teaching the Gospel
20:00 - “I Think Myself Happy” Explained
21:50 - Why Historical Context Matters
22:27 - Where to Find Bishop Shawn’s Content
23:10 - “I See Jesus In You” Culture
24:06 - Freedom From Intimidation
25:24 - Seeing Jesus in Everyone
26:02 - Final Thoughts & Closing Blessing

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we unpack 4 signs that you’re actually moving in the right direction spiritually, emotionally, and mentally.

After weeks of conversations around “Godly Thought or Trauma Response,” we wanted to answer one of the biggest questions we’ve been getting:
“How do I know I’m healing?”
“How do I know I’m growing?”
“How do I know I’m actually becoming free?”

This conversation is deeply personal as we continue navigating grief, leadership, deconstruction, healing, and learning how to live from love instead of fear.

In this episode, we discuss:
• Why fear is no longer our motivation
• Spiritual disciplines through love instead of pressure
• Vulnerability vs transparency
• Healing through safe connection
• How to hold tension without panic
• Deconstruction, curiosity, and learning to rethink theology
• Letting go of the need for approval
• Finding identity rooted in love instead of performance

We also share some updates about upcoming podcast episodes, interviews with Bill Vanderbush and Dr. Shawn Smith, and what’s ahead this summer for the podcast.

00:00 - Intro & Processing Grief
02:15 - Four Signs You’re Moving in the Right Direction
03:34 - Sign #1: Less Motivated by Fear
04:22 - Spiritual Disciplines Without Fear
05:01 - Fear, Hell, and Financial Freedom
06:26 - Generosity Flowing From Love
07:21 - Love Removes Fear
09:00 - Fear May Whisper, But It Doesn’t Lead
09:47 - Sign #2: Honest About Your Humanity
10:16 - Transparency vs Vulnerability
10:49 - Healing Happens When You’re Heard
11:16 - “I’m Okay, But I’m Not Okay”
12:00 - Why “How Are You?” Matters Differently in Ukrainian Culture
13:53 - Sign #3: Holding Tension Without Panic
14:16 - Deconstruction, Uncertainty & Emotional Processing
15:28 - Letting People Process at Their Own Pace
16:14 - Curiosity, Teachability & Seeing God Better
17:02 - Ted Lasso, Curiosity & Less Judgment
17:24 - Sign #4: Rooted in Love, Not Approval
17:39 - Letting Go of Needing Everyone’s Approval
18:21 - Identity as Sons & Daughters of God
19:02 - Recap: Four Signs You’re Healing & Growing
19:19 - Upcoming Podcast Guests & Summer Series
21:26 - Final Encouragement & Closing Thoughts

This episode is different. After five years of never missing a week, we suddenly disappeared for two weeks…

Two weeks ago, we lost one of our best friends — Chris Crawford — unexpectedly at just 46 years old. In this episode, we sit down not with polished answers or a sermon outline, but simply as two grieving friends trying to process heartbreak in real time.

We talk honestly about:
What grief actually feels like
How loss comes in waves
The emotional weight of showing up when you don’t want to
Why presence matters more than words
The tension of holding hope and heartbreak at the same time
Some of the unhelpful things people say to grieving people (even with good intentions)
Why we felt it was important not to just “move on” too quickly

This is a conversation about friendship, loss, pain, love, and learning how to sit with grief instead of trying to fix it.

If you’re grieving right now…
If someone you love is grieving…
Or if you simply need permission to not be okay for a while…
we hope this episode reminds you that you’re not alone.

More than anything, this conversation reminded us: Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is simply show up.

00:00 - We’re Back After Tragedy
00:36 - Missing Our First Podcast Weeks in 5 Years
01:07 - Losing One of Our Best Friends
03:03 - How Grief Comes in Waves
04:36 - The Closest Loss We’ve Ever Experienced
05:19 - The Shock of Losing Chris at 46
07:11 - Writing Through Grief & Journaling
08:26 - Why Christians Struggle With Grief
08:58 - Preaching While Grieving
10:24 - Holding Hope and Heartbreak Together
11:54 - Grieving Without Easy Answers
13:14 - The Tension of Comforting People
15:13 - Presence Matters More Than Words
15:45 - A Message That Encouraged Us
18:33 - Grief, Vulnerability & Being Real
20:15 - Show Up for Someone This Week
20:50 - Never Underestimate Presence
21:43 - What’s Next for the Podcast
22:08 - Final Thoughts & Encouragement

What if what you’ve been calling “meekness”... isn’t actually meekness at all?

In this episode of Two Pastors and a Mic, we unpack the difference between true biblical meekness and something many of us have unknowingly lived in—self-abandonment.

For years, we’ve been taught that being quiet, agreeable, and selfless is spiritual. But what if constantly apologizing, shrinking your voice, and avoiding conflict isn’t humility… it’s a trauma response?

We get honest about:
Why so many people struggle to speak up or set boundaries
The subtle ways self-abandonment shows up (you probably do these without realizing it)
The fear underneath it all—rejection, conflict, and being “too much”
Why “no” is a complete sentence (and why that’s so hard for us)
What meekness actually looks like through the life of Jesus

This one gets personal. We share our own struggles with over-apologizing, people-pleasing, and learning to stop shrinking ourselves in relationships.

If you’ve ever felt like:
“I don’t want to bother anyone…”
“Sorry, this might be a dumb question…”
“I’ll just stay quiet to keep the peace…”
…this episode is for you.

Because the truth is: Meekness isn’t weakness. It’s strength under control. And you were never meant to disappear to be accepted.

00:00 - Welcome Back and Podcast Consistency
01:58 - Learning to Celebrate Yourself
02:50 - This Week’s Topic: Meekness vs. Self-Abandonment
03:43 - What Self-Abandonment Looks Like
05:11 - Channock on Feeling Meek but Being Seen as Bold
06:47 - Over-Apologizing and Shrinking Yourself
08:01 - “I Know You’re Busy” and Other Subtle Self-Abandonment Patterns
09:19 - Why “No” Should Be a Complete Sentence
10:05 - Boundaries, Family Pressure, and Over-Explaining
11:06 - Why We Struggle to Say No
12:31 - The Fear Beneath Self-Abandonment
14:23 - What Meekness Actually Is
15:12 - Strength Under Control in the Life of Jesus
16:20 - Why Self-Abandonment Feels So Hard
17:57 - A Simple Shift: Stop Starting with “Sorry”
18:43 - Meekness Does Not Mean Disappearing
19:15 - Final Encouragement to Stop Shrinking Yourself
20:34 - Reflecting on Self-Abandonment in Real Life
21:16 - You’re Loved and There’s Nothing You Can Do About It