The Agile Embedded Podcast

• Violet Su on hardware manufacturing

  From Prototype to Product: Navigating Hardware Manufacturing with Violet SuIn this episode of the Agile Embedded Podcast, Luca speaks with Violet Su, Business Development Manager at Seed Studio, about the challenges and opportunities in hardware manufacturing. The conversation explores the realities of hardware development, from initial prototyping to mass production. Violet emphasizes the importance of getting products into users' hands quickly to gather feedback, even if they're not perfect. She highlights common pitfalls for newcomers to hardware manufacturing, including underestimating costs, certification requirements, and supply chain complexities. The discussion also covers the growing influence of AI in hardware development and how emerging connectivity technologies are shaping the future of embedded systems.Key Topics[01:30] Introduction to Seed Studio and its focus on open source hardware and AI[03:15] Changes in hardware development landscape over the past decade[06:45] Common challenges for hardware startups and innovators[12:30] The importance of early feedback and iterative development[16:20] Success story: OpenUC2 microscopy project collaboration[23:40] Indicators of a successful hardware project[28:15] Insights from Embedded World 2024 conference[33:10] Future trends in hardware beyond AINotable Quotes"You might be able to design one and it really works when you have a sample or 10 samples, but when we talk about products, there are a lot of nuances that we really need to think about." — Violet Su"You can fail faster so that you can succeed faster. We couldn't make a perfect project and we shouldn't expect to make a perfect product." — Violet Su"When they give you the complaints early on, you will be very thankful, and they know you listened as well." — Violet Su"The projects that might take off either really solve the pain of some people, or get people excited because it's something new." — Violet Su"There's nothing better than getting customer complaints early on, so you don't get them later on." — Luca IngianniResources MentionedSeed Studio - Company providing open source hardware and AI solutionsOpenUC2 - Open source modular microscopy project mentioned as a success storyConnect With UsReach out to Violet Su at [email protected] to discuss potential hardware collaborations with Seed StudioVisit seedstudio.com to explore their range of AI hardware and customization servicesConnect with Violet Su on LinkedIn for updates on hardware manufacturing trends You can find Jeff at https://jeffgable.com.You can find Luca at https://luca.engineer.Want to join the agile Embedded Slack? Click here

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• AI-augmented software development

  Luca and Jeff dive into how AI tools can supercharge embedded development workflows. Luca shares his extensive hands-on experience, while Jeff brings a fresh perspective as someone just starting to incorporate these tools. They explore how AI can help with coding, testing, and debugging - while emphasizing that good software engineering judgment remains crucial. The conversation is particularly timely since AI tools are evolving rapidly, unlike their usually more "evergreen" podcast topics.A key insight they discuss is that while AI tools offer amazing productivity boosts (much like IDEs did), they're not replacing experienced developers anytime soon. However, they raise interesting questions about the future job market for junior developers. Their take? Modern developers should absolutely embrace AI tools, but use them thoughtfully - especially when learning.Key Timestamps and Topics:00:00:00 - Welcome and episode overview00:00:43 - Why this topic won't age well (but that's okay!)00:02:20 - Breaking down different AI coding tools00:08:00 - Deep dive into aider and workflow integration00:20:02 - Using AI for testing and test-driven development00:27:00 - AI-assisted architecture work and its limitations00:30:40 - How AI helps explore unfamiliar codebases00:33:30 - Debugging with AI - pros and cons00:38:50 - What this means for development jobs00:43:59 - Using AI to learn new frameworks/languages00:46:15 - Embedded Online Conference preview You can find Jeff at https://jeffgable.com.You can find Luca at https://luca.engineer.Want to join the agile Embedded Slack? Click here

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• BONUS: Listener Question on Repository Organization

  ## Key Topics * [00:30] Introduction to the listener's question about repository granularity in embedded development* [01:15] The listener's approach: separate repositories for different work products in safety-critical industries* [03:20] Luca's initial reaction and concerns about over-complication* [05:45] Discussion of monorepo approaches and configuration management* [08:10] The concept of micro-repositories and parallels to microservices* [11:30] Using feature flags and CI pipelines instead of repository separation ## Notable Quotes > "You're splitting something which ought to be joined together into different repositories and hiding whatever is happening within the repositories from the different users, from the different developers." — Luca Ingianni > "The risk of course is that you will not spot divergence early enough because people just don't merge because it's a chore and because things might break, and of course that is the point - the earlier you notice that something breaks, the easier it will be to fix it." — Luca Ingianni > "I'm willing to guarantee that you're going to get the architecture wrong at least on the first try. You think you're being really smart and you cut it up into a bunch of microservices or micro-repositories, and you're just going to get the boundaries wrong." — Luca Ingianni > "I would opt for fewer repositories and rather do configuration management within the repositories as opposed to between repositories. Use feature flags, use tagging, use whatever you want to insulate changes that might be breaking from the rest of the code base." — Luca Ingianni ## Resources Mentioned * John Taylor's Embedded Project Cookbook - A resource mentioned by the listener that discusses sequential events in embedded projects* Trunk-Based Development - Development methodology discussed throughout the episode* Minimum CD Podcast - Previous podcast episode referenced by the listener   You can find Jeff at https://jeffgable.com.You can find Luca at https://luca.engineer.Want to join the agile Embedded Slack? Click here

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• MinimumCD

  The episode discusses the concept of Minimum Viable Continuous Delivery (Minimum CD), which represents a counter-movement to heavyweight frameworks like SAFe. The hosts explore how Minimum CD provides a set of essential practices for successfully building software-based products without unnecessary complexity. The approach focuses on core principles rather than rigid frameworks, making it particularly relevant for embedded systems development.The discussion covers the fundamental requirements for continuous delivery, including automated testing, pipeline-driven deployments, and trunk-based development. The hosts emphasize that while these practices may seem challenging for embedded systems, they become increasingly important as devices become more sophisticated and connected.A key theme throughout the episode is the importance of building trust in the development process through automation, consistent practices, and cultural commitment. The hosts stress that while some practices may seem difficult to implement in embedded systems, the more challenging they are, the more valuable they become when successfully implemented.Timestamps and Topics:00:00:00 - Introduction and overview of Minimum CD00:02:00 - Discussion of Minimum CD as counter-movement to complex frameworks00:03:45 - Continuous Integration fundamentals00:15:35 - Pipeline as the only way to deploy00:27:00 - Production-like test environments00:29:45 - Rollback capabilities for connected devices00:32:25 - Configuration deployment with artifacts00:34:50 - Trunk-based development principles00:39:30 - Automated testing requirements00:41:10 - Maintaining delivered work integrity00:45:55 - Wrap-up and closing thoughtsShownotes:Link to minimumcd.org: https://minimumcd.org/ Reference to Brian Finster as instigator of Minimum CD Reference to Raymond Chen's blog about Windows backward compatibility Reference to previous episode on trunk-based development Reference to interviews with Philip Johnston from Embedded Artistry Reference to interview with Francois from Mend Fault Link to Agile Embedded Slack group You can find Jeff at https://jeffgable.com.You can find Luca at https://luca.engineer.Want to join the agile Embedded Slack? Click here

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• Offensive Cybersecurity with Ryan Torvik

  Key Topics* [03:00] Ryan's background in offensive cybersecurity and defense contracting* [04:30] The mindset and challenges of vulnerability research and hacking* [09:15] How security researchers approach attacking embedded devices* [13:45] Techniques for extracting and analyzing firmware* [19:30] Security considerations for embedded developers* [24:00] The importance of designing security from the beginning* [28:45] Security challenges for small companies without dedicated security staff* [33:20] Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR) and other security measures* [37:00] Emulation technology for testing embedded systems* [45:30] Tulip Tree's approach to embedded system emulation and security testing* [50:15] Resources for learning about cybersecurity and hackingNotable Quotes> "When you're on the vulnerability research side, you're trying to find a time when the software does something wrong. When it does something unexpected." — Ryan Torvik> "Don't roll your own cryptography. Use a standard library for cryptography." — Ryan Torvik> "We're seeing that the maintenance costs are what are getting people now. You're expected to maintain this device, but now you got to be able to actually update the device." — Ryan Torvik> "It's so much more expensive to put security in after the fact if it's possible in the first place. Why is that even something that needs to be debated?" — Luca IngianniResources Mentioned[Tulip Tree Technology](tuliptreetech.com) - Ryan's company focused on embedded system security and emulation* IDA Pro - Interactive disassembler for firmware analysis* Binary Ninja - Interactive disassembler from Vector35* Ghidra - NSA's open-source software reverse engineering tool* Microcorruption - Beginner-friendly CTF challenge for learning embedded system hacking* National Vulnerability Database - Public database of security vulnerabilitiesThings to do* Join the Agile Embedded Podcast Slack channel to connect with the hosts and other listeners* Check out Tulip Tree Technology's website for their emulation tools and security services* Try Microcorruption CTF challenges to learn about embedded system security vulnerabilities* Consider security implications early in your design process rather than as an afterthought* Use secure programming languages like Rust that help prevent common security issues You can find Jeff at https://jeffgable.com.You can find Luca at https://luca.engineer.Want to join the agile Embedded Slack? Click here

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