On Theme: Design Systems in Depth

• But "design systems as infrastructure" is boring, with Sam Anderson — #16

  📲 Text the show your thoughts!Y’all, I’ll be honest. Some days, I’m scared and nervous and uncomfortable with AI’s emergence, and implications, too. But I am also curiously optimistic, and more importantly — I don’t want to use any platform I have to spread even more fear and discontent and drama. So today you’re getting a dose of two things that I love: infrastructure and optimism.Drawing from his experience leading design systems at three very large orgs, Sam Anderson from Intuit shares how framing design systems as infrastructure can help them be recognized as essential to business success. He shares his vision for the importance of patterns as the next frontier of systems work, particularly in a rapidly changing tech landscape accelerated by AI, and we talk about what leadership conversations look like. Plus, Sam drops a spicy take that he believes AI won’t destroy design system jobs but make us even more valuable.Links & ReferencesSam Anderson on LinkedInSam's article Design Systems are Infrastructure: The evolution of design systems in the age of AINate Baldwin's Leonardo and Proportio💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

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• Naming is hard, but have you tried working with people? with Guy Segal — #15

  📲 Text the show your thoughts!Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of… people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system.Links & ReferencesGuy Segal on LinkedInGuy's talk at BeMore Festival on feedback, Working with Humans: Resolving Conflicts with EmpathyGuy's talk Mastering the Painless Design CritiqueGuy on the Knapsack Design Systems PodcastGuy's podcast, Design Downtime, celebrating the joys of living a balanced creative life outside the pixels and wireframesBrad Frost's article Choosing a Name for your Design System💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

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• The Four Quadrants of Design System Impact, with Ben Callahan — #14

  📲 Text the show your thoughts!Ben Callahan joins Elyse for a fun conversation on creating impact with design systems. Ben shares insights from his consulting experience, discussing common pitfalls like organizations expecting a design system without adequately supporting their teams. They break down the "Four Quadrants of Design System Impact" framework, which breaks down tactical versus strategic work, helping teams avoid pitfalls like endless component creation. Plus, hear Ben’s predictions for the future of design systemsLinks & ReferencesBen Callahan on LinkedInThe QuestionRedwoods, Ben's community supporting design system practitionersBen's post on The Four Quadrants and Why you’re NOT seeing Holistic Impact from your Design SystemBen's overview of our episode of The QuestionCam Worboy's Broken Promises of Design Systems talk at Config 2024 (and the worst screen made with DS components)Kotter's Leading Change book💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

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• Shipping new ways of working to a classic organization with the One UPS system, with Marcela Rodriguez Joos — #13

  📲 Text the show your thoughts!Marcela Rodriguez Joos shares the story behind the One UPS project, a massive effort to modernize and unify UPS’ brand and digital experiences through a new design system. Marcela reveals how a “why does everything look different?” moment from their CEO was the catalyst for this ambitious effort, how they’re collaborating across a massive org, and successfully reducing development timelines from years down to months. Plus, Marcela’s team dishes out their design system spice takes!Links & ReferencesMarcela Rodriguez Joos on LinkedInMarcela on the Into Design Systems Connect your Design System to business value Roundtable💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

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• The flaws of the “accessibility is built in to the design system” argument, with Daniel Henderson-Ede — #12

  📲 Text the show your thoughts!Ever had a team come to you after an a11y audit like, "but I used the design system, why does my product have accessibility defects??" Daniel Henderson-Ede, one of design systems' leading accessibility voices, joins me on the show today to unpack a spicy myth in design systems: that accessibility can be fully "built-in." Daniel walks us through the common pitfalls of overselling accessibility, how teams often mistakenly assume the system handles everything, and we explore the challenges and missteps of managing accessibility.📋 Plus, check out Daniel's Systems-Accessibility Ownership Matrix resource that you can use on your Design System team!Links & ReferencesDaniel Henderson-Ede on LinkedInDaniel's websiteDaniel's recorded talks and showsMantis & Co accessibility servicesDownload Daniel and CVS's Figma Web Accessibility Annotation KitStark Figma pluginUse this for your teams! Daniel's Systems-Accessibility Ownership MatrixInconsistent consistency within design systems💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

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