Draft Zero: a screenwriting podcast

Listen to learn how to move an audience with a character who never changes.

Do characters need to change for you to have a satisfying story? That's a question we've been asking since, like, episode five of this podcast. And we're finally talking about them - whatever you call 'em: steadfast, resilent, or flat arcs.

To that end, we breakdown MOANA, APOLLO 13, and THE DRESSMAKER to work out what carries a story when a character arc doesn't. If your protagonist isn't going to change, the drama has to come from what they do to everyone else.

We develop some tools that we reckon carry a steadfast story:

doubt and wobble (a character with no doubt isn't steadfast, they're a psychopath)

emotional events between characters

additive rewards (something is gained) versus subtractive ones (something is taken away) - a distinction we've borrowed borrowed from operant conditioning;

and how that difference changes the emotional tone of an ending.

The subtractive reward is why a happy ending can still feel like loss... and it's the thing we reckon that'll matter most when we get to negative arcs.

Chas, Mel and Stu also wibble-wobble over WILLOW, TAKEN, FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF, THE MARTIAN, PROJECT HAIL MARY, THE GREY, ALL IS LOST, STAR WARS (as always), GREY GARDENS, PRISCILLA, and how many tampons NASA sent to space.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre & Natalie and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"If your characters are not going to arc, if they are going to remain steadfast, then creating multiple smaller emotional events is really important to keep the story dynamic." — Mel Killingsworth @ 02:32:01

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:18 – What Is a Steadfast Character Arc?

00:04:24 – › Character as habitual action and setting up payoff

00:05:56 – › Operant conditioning and additive versus subtractive rewards

00:09:14 – › Zero-context takeaways on steadfast emotional stakes

00:10:33 – The Questionnaire for Analysing Character Arcs

00:12:18 – MOANA

00:13:31 – › Credits and the hero's journey plot summary

00:16:12 – › The I Want song and being pulled versus pushed

00:20:14 – › Moana's steadfastness causes her own low point

00:22:47 – › Steadfast belief that changes others, not the self

00:25:57 – › Multiple challenge types needed to dramatize resilience

00:27:25 – › Maui's arc contrasted as genuine positive change

00:29:38 – › Skills and rewards versus true character transformation

00:36:22 – › Grandmother and father relationships deepen audience intimacy

00:41:15 – › Disney princess genre expectations for character arcs

00:45:27 – › Tracking when and whether Maui and Moana change

00:48:36 – › The reluctant ally pattern across MOANA, STAR WARS, WILLOW

00:52:10 – › Contrast, theme, and the audience's emotional event

00:53:08 – APOLLO 13

00:55:50 – › Plot summary and the docudrama's technical problem-solving

00:57:38 – › Riveting problem-solving without any character value change

01:00:56 – › Emotional events replace arcs in the Jack and Jim relationship

01:09:12 – › Emotional tension versus arc as a structural framework

01:14:42 – › Disaster movies compared across steadfast and positive arcs

01:16:23 – › Do any characters change their relationship to themselves?

01:20:02 – › Working the steadfast questionnaire against APOLLO 13

01:33:53 – THE DRESSMAKER

01:39:16 – › Debating Tilly's true objective in returning to Dungatar

01:44:51 – › Steadfastness as being the agent of change for others

01:48:37 – › Teddy's death punishes the belief that she isn't cursed

01:52:16 – › Subtractive reward and removal of burdens versus true change

01:57:00 – › GREY GARDENS as a parallel study in steadfast protection

02:02:18 – › Tilly's revenge tactic transforms the town around her

02:11:55 – › Fairy tale logic and heightened melodrama in the film

02:16:29 – › Debating whether Tilly is steadfast or an agent of change

02:20:11 – › Subtractive rewards and how the ending should feel

02:24:23 – › How the story world punishes and rewards transformation

02:27:01 – › Was this steadfast, a positive arc, or both?

02:31:45 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up

FILMS

MOANA (2016) — (w) Jared Bush, Ron Clements, John Musker, Chris Williams, Don Hall, Pamela Ribon, Aaron Kandell, Jordan Kandell (d) John Musker, Ron Clements

THE DRESSMAKER (2015) — (w) Jocelyn Moorhouse, Pj Hogan, Rosalie Ham (d) Jocelyn Moorhouse

APOLLO 13 (1995) — (w) William Broyles Jr, Al Reinert, Jeffrey Kluger, Jim Lovell (d) Ron Howard

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-108: The Emotional Event with Judith Weston

DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

DZ-128: What even is a Character Arc?

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-129/

Listen to separate the three layers of an arc -- does the character change? How do they feel about it? And how is the audience positioned to feel about it?

Stu, Chas and Mel finally begin their long-awaited journey into CHARACTER ARCS. In this "primer" episode, we try find some learnings and analytical lenses that we can then apply in future breakdowns.

In this episode, we explore differences between a character learning something and a character fundamentally changing, how to dramatise that, and how the show teaches the audience to perceive that transformation (whether positively or negatively).

Throughout the discussion, we skate over A NEW HOPE, BLUE MOON, BREAKING BAD, BETTER CALL SAUL, the French real-time thriller FULL TIME, A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS, THE GREEN KNIGHT, ALL OF US STRANGERS, PREDATOR BADLANDS, FIELD OF DREAMS, MEG 2, and Stu's receding hairline.

Ultimately, this discussion synthesises into a series of questions to ask of a story and the main point-of-view character living through that story:

Does the audience enter the story with an expectation that characters will change?

How does the story teach the audience to expect characters to change or not?

Do the characters change? Is it experiential change or internal value change? How is that dramatised?

Is the character aware that they changed? How do they feel about that change? Does that matter?

How does the story want the audience to feel about that change? If different to the character’s perception, how does the story pull that off?

How does the story world punish or reward the change?

What are the values explored by the arc? How does this relate to the theme?

How is contrast vs affinity/unity portrayed through the characters’ journey? Order vs disorder vs inertia

What is the emotional event created between the character and audience as a result of the journey? Does the character end up more intimate or distant from the audience?

In upcoming episodes, we intend to apply these lenses to stories with STEADFAST/RESILIENT arcs, POSITIVE arcs, NEGATIVE arcs and - potentially - a “WTF is this?!” arc.

Please check out our homework discussion on Patreon. And if you want to vote on the stories we're gonna breakdown, sign up!

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Join the discussion on Reddit.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre & Natalie and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"Character arcs are really difficult to talk about because they're not just in isolation. Rarely is a film only about one character, right? So we're actually talking about how we harmonize other characters around them." — Stu Willis @ 00:12:16

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:17 – Character Arcs: A Primer on What We're Really Asking

00:03:13 – › Three layers of an arc: character, self-perception, audience

00:07:04 – › The four-quadrant map: change, no change, better, worse

00:10:15 – › Why calling it an arc is already a misnomer

00:13:35 – What We Each Want to Learn from This Series

00:19:56 – › Whether emotional authenticity is becoming more valuable than spectacle

00:23:37 – › Why stories let us safely inhabit experiences outside our own

00:30:04 – The Deep Question: Can Characters Actually Change?

00:35:49 – › Contrast and affinity as the design logic of transformation

00:41:40 – › The rock metaphor: external forces versus intrinsic change

00:46:43 – › Order, disorder, and inertia as the spectrum of arc types

00:50:29 – Three Layers of Judgment: Character, World, and Audience

00:56:45 – › How the filmmaker positions the audience relative to the character

01:00:01 – › Do audiences enter stories expecting change at all?

01:06:09 – › Mapping the inner journey against plot beats

01:09:28 – › Why low points exist to make the climax feel earned

01:12:09 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up

01:26:47 – Thanks to Our Patreons!

FILMS

STAR WARS (1977) — (w) George Lucas

SHOWS

A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS — (w) George Rr Martin, Ira Parker

BETTER CALL SAUL — (w) Vince Gilligan, Peter Gould

BREAKING BAD — (w) Vince Gilligan

LINKS

Website: Bruce Block's The Visual Story

EPISODES IN THE CHARACTER ARCS SERIES

DZ-128: What even is a Character Arc?

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-04: Catharsis and the Post-Coital Cigarette

DZ-108: The Emotional Event with Judith Weston

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-128/

Listen to learn the emotional impact of revealing secrets vs discovering them.

In this episode Stu, Chas and Mel apply the Landmark–Hidden–Secret framework (from DZ-126) across two very different genres: the thriller SIDE EFFECTS (2013) and the tragicomic pilot of SHRINKING.

SIDE EFFECTS is a film of two genres. The first half plays as a drama about depression and over-medication; the second half is a 90s thriller. We talk about how every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger — and that danger motivates him to uncover more.

In SHRINKING, we see a different use of the framework. "What are psychologists but detectives of the mind?" Rather than the cost of finding secrets, it's about the cost of sharing them. Chas also comes out of this with a paradigm he's been building toward (but we're keeping what that is secret until you listen!)

And inevitably we go on some tangents: whether SIDE EFFECTS should even have been an erotic thriller!

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Join the discussion on Reddit.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"Every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger -- and that danger motivates him to uncover more." — Chas Fisher @ 00:26:04

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:16 – Intro: Secrets and Clues 2 - the Cost of Revelation

00:01:03 – Previously on Secrets and Clues (Recap of Part 1)

00:04:24 – Flashforward Insights

00:09:29 – SIDE EFFECTS

00:20:18 – › The First Half: Push and Misdirection

00:28:41 – › Genre Shift: Banks Becomes the Detective

00:48:06 – SHRINKING

01:00:02 – › The Inverted Paradigm: When Everyone Knows

01:07:47 – › The Cost of Sharing

01:22:02 – › Power Through Honest Acknowledgement

01:35:37 – The Key Tool Chas Learned

01:39:28 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up

01:50:48 – Many Thanks to our Patrons!

FILMS

SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — (w) Scott Z Burns (d) Steven Soderbergh

SHOWS

SHRINKING — (w) Brett Goldstein, Jason Segel, Bill Lawrence

SCRIPTS

Study the script: SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — Scott Z Burns

LINKS

Website: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret

Website: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design

Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part One)

Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part Two)

EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES

DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-127/

Listen if you want to understand how hidden information drives character motivation and plot structure!

“Getting information puts your character in danger. And danger rewards your character with information." — One of three ideas we steal from game design in this episode. In this two part series, we talk about how secrets, clues and hidden information motivate characters and may (or may not) help you plot from a character perspective. Part One (this episode) looks at WAKE UP DEAD MAN; while Part Two looks at SIDE EFFECTS, and the pilot episode of SHRINKING.

The other two (related) ideas are:

Landmark information (characters just have it), Secret (they know it's there, need to unlock it), and Hidden (invisible until they pay the cost)

Narrative velocity — are characters pushed forward or are they pulled forward?

To that end, in this episode Stu, Chas and Mel start with the murder mystery (ostensibly the easier deep-dive): Rian Johnson’s WAKE UP DEAD MAN. But this is a complex film made even more complex by being a dual-protagonist film. Uhuh. Benoit Blanc is pulled through the story by his need to solve the case; Father Judd pushed through, against his will, to prove his innocence. Breaking down how that plays out — and why it matters for the kind of escalation each character can sustain — is the heart of the episode.

And inevitably we go on some tangents: pointers, plants, and underpinnings (from our Everything Everywhere All At Once episode) fair play in locked-room mysteries, Narrative POV (as always) and node-based plotting and what dungeon-crawl game design has to do with writing a web of clues.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Join the discussion on Reddit.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"Information puts players in danger and danger rewards characters with information, right? That's kind of the loop with like thriller game design." — Stu Willis @ 00:05:40

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:18 – What do we mean by Secrets and Clues?

00:04:17 – › Landmark, hidden, and secret information defined

00:08:10 – › Narrative velocity as push and pull for characters

00:13:22 – WAKE UP DEAD MAN

00:17:56 – › Key learnings preview: push-pull and narrative velocity

00:32:33 – › Mapping character awareness of secrets through WAKE UP DEAD MAN

00:58:21 – › Distinguishing secrets, clues, and hidden information

01:13:17 – › Benoit Blanc's character arc and the choice of grace

01:22:50 – KEY LEARNINGS & WRAP UP

01:24:22 – › Character drives how secrets are hidden and revealed

01:25:34 – › Narrative velocity and escalating stakes reveal character

FILMS

WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — (w) Rian Johnson

SCRIPTS

Study the script: WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — Rian Johnson

LINKS

Read: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret

Read: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design

Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 1)

Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 2)

Read: Mel's KNIVES OUT: A Rose by Any Other Name Would Not Clue Us In

EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES

DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-126/

Listen if you want to understand how narrative POV, screenplay format, and dialogue craft can elevate a contained biopic into an Oscar-nominated film

BLUE MOON is a talky, period-drama that film about an obscure songer-writer in the 1940s. Yet, it attracted world-class talent AND Academy Award nominations, including for it's script. Join Chas & Mel as they explore how narrative POV, interweaving relationships, hooky dialogue, and even the screenplay format itself make the script for BLUE MOON so great.

While Stu is still on show and we are between the 2026 Oscar nominations and the actual ceremony, our patreons selected BLUE MOON for this one-shot and boy are Mel and Chas glad they did. They dive into many lessons learned in previous episodes, like our character-driven episode… or analysis of French scenes in Adolescence… or the story-telling power that comes from the audience knowing the ending from biopics.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"When I say rules, I mean the prescriptive rules of when someone posts something on screenwriting and everyone goes *Oh, you broke all the rules*. I'm saying this is good. I'm saying most of those rules are suggestions or most of those rules are given to you when you are learning how to write for a reason." — Mel Killingsworth @ 00:38:42

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:32 – What Makes a Contained Biopic Compelling?

00:02:19 – Flashforward Insights: POV, French scenes, dialogue craft, and structure

00:04:32 – BLUE MOON: Plot Summary and Structural Overview

00:08:00 – › How script format signals emotional breaks in a real-time story

00:13:34 – Controlling narrative POV

00:17:13 – › Tragedy versus the life he would have chosen

00:24:09 – › Narrative POV as the film's core structural tool

00:27:49 – Using screenplay FORMAT to reflect the emotional story

00:31:56 – › French scenes and real-time spatial staging

00:35:40 – › How rule-breaking formatting signals emotional truth

00:39:27 – Interweaving relationships: Hart's Relationships as the A, B and C Stories

00:44:50 – › Hart and Rogers: the collision of artistic integrity and commercial success

00:49:14 – › Hart and Elizabeth: desire, repetition, and the just-not-that-way callback

00:53:08 – › The bar regulars as audience surrogates and mirror to Hart's self-awareness

00:56:46 – Repetition and pop culture references in dialogue

00:59:48 – › Repetition as lyrical structure in dialogue craft

01:03:49 – › Tonal variety and mixing registers in witty scripts

01:07:54 – Key Learnings

01:09:48 – › The hidden craft beneath real-time, single-location scripts

01:13:42 – › How cultural touchstones establish stakes without exposition

01:16:02 – Thanks patreons and Oscar-nominated listener!

FILMS

BLUE MOON (2026) — (w) Robert Kaplow (d) Richard Linklater

LINKS

Read: BLUE MOON - Scene Headings Breakdown

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-01: Do Screenplay Gurus win you Oscars?

DZ-68: Using POV to structure KNIVES OUT

DZ-118: ADOLESCENCE -- How Questions Create Dramatic Tension

DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE

DZ-35: Driving Characters or Character Driven?

DZ-63: Tools for Better Dialogue 2 - Hook and Eye

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-125/