Becoming UnDone

About the Guest
Matt Sayman is the head boys basketball coach at Midway High School in Waco, Texas, and a former professional basketball player in Iceland. Previously, he played collegiate basketball at Baylor University during one of its most tumultuous periods, amidst a major scandal. He is the author of "The Leftovers: Baylor, Betrayal, and Beyond," which chronicles his experiences during this challenging period. Additionally, Sayman was a Division 1 athlete who played a significant role in the challenging 2003-2004 Baylor basketball season.
Episode Summary
Join Toby Brooks in this episode of Becoming UnDone® as he sits down with Matt Sayman, a former Baylor University basketball player, who shares his journey through adversity, basketball, and faith. Matt recounts his experiences at Baylor during the 2003 basketball scandal, capturing the trials and tribulations that unfolded when his dream almost fell apart. Alongside his personal narrative, Matt reflects on the profound influence of Coach Scott Drew, who took over the Baylor program amidst chaos and laid the foundation for future success, leading the team to a national championship in 2021.
Delving into Matt's personal transformation, this episode explores his struggles with identity, the temptations of a partying lifestyle during his senior year, and the pivotal moments that prompted a shift towards a more purposeful and faith-guided path. Sayman candidly discusses his transition from a collegiate athlete to professional sports, the challenges encountered along the way, and the eventual pivot to a coaching career. This episode not only highlights Sayman’s resilience but also underscores the role of unwavering faith and supportive relationships in navigating life's tumultuous seasons. As listeners follow his remarkable journey, they are encouraged to reflect on their own moments of becoming undone and rebuilding stronger.
Key Takeaways
Matt Sayman recounts how his family's decision to move to Texas significantly impacted his path to becoming a Division 1 basketball player at Baylor University.
The 2003-2004 Baylor basketball season was plagued by turmoil, including a murder scandal and NCAA sanctions, which tested Sayman's identity and resilience.
Coach Scott Drew's positive culture and belief in a championship future had a significant impact on the Baylor basketball program despite initial skepticism.
Sayman's post-basketball struggles with identity and faith are depicted, illustrating how he overcame personal challenges and rediscovered his purpose.
The episode underscores the importance of perseverance, faith, and support systems in overcoming life's adversities and laying the foundation for future success.
Notable Quotes
"I just really wanted, I think, to go somewhere that I was wanted." – Matt Sayman reflects on choosing Baylor University.
"Wanted to get out of there. Matt Saman here. And I am undone." – Matt Sayman on feeling lost after the scandal rocked Baylor.
"You know, it is March Madness time… it's still a special, it's the most special sporting event to me." – Matt Sayman sharing his passion for March Madness.
"We love stories about
Reach out to Becoming UnDone! Text Toby here!
Support the show
Becoming UnDone® is a NiTROHype Creative production. Written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for Becoming Undone, contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me at TobyBrooksPhD. Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

About the Guest
Roger Lipe is a seasoned sports chaplain and ministry leader with over 30 years of experience, primarily working with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes (FCA) at Southern Illinois University (SIU) Carbondale. Throughout his career, he has dedicated his life to providing pastoral care and guidance to athletes, coaches, and sports teams, assisting them through both triumphs and challenges. Recently, after a series of personal trials and the passing of his wife, Sharon, Roger has stepped into a new chapter of his life, focusing on mentoring and supporting leaders in the sports and sports ministry landscape.
Episode Summary
In this poignant episode of Becoming UnDone®, host Toby Brooks welcomes back Roger Lipe, marking him as the first repeat guest on the show. Roger opens up about a life-changing text message that set into motion a whirlwind of events, including his wife's battle with cancer, his decision to retire early, and their subsequent move to be closer to family. Roger shares deeply personal insights into how these events reshaped his perspective on life, faith, and his identity beyond his career. With his characteristic humility and faithfulness, Roger reflects on themes of surrender, purpose, and the transformative power of love in the face of trials.
Throughout the episode, key topics include resilience, caregiving, and the journey from loss to finding new purpose. Roger Lipe speaks candidly about the vulnerability of feeling inadequate in caregiving roles, the importance of processing grief authentically, and the redefinition of intimacy and love in marriage. As he navigates through a season of immense change, he looks forward to his new mission of supporting and mentoring sports leaders. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own journeys and consider the courageous steps they can take when life becomes undone.
Key Takeaways
The Power of a Single Moment: A text message can alter life profoundly, setting one on an unforeseen path that tests resilience and faith.
Importance of Authentic Grief Processing: Avoiding the rush to return to normalcy and allowing oneself to fully grieve can lead to deeper healing and understanding.
Love and Caregiving: True love is embodied in selfless caregiving and maintaining dignity for loved ones during difficult times.
Identity beyond Career: Embracing one's identity in faith rather than career achievements can provide a steady foundation during life's upheavals.
Mentorship and Legacy: Transitioning into mentorship roles can help bridge the gap left by retiring leaders, preserving organizational values and history.
Notable Quotes
"The moment that changed everything and set the course of our lives was that text message."
"I can't control anything about this process. She doesn't need me to control it. So what can I do to serve my wife well?"
"Sharon had nothing to give, so it required me to give selflessly, to love extravagantly."
"I am always pleasing to him because of who Christ is in me. That's a big deal."
"True healing involves fully dealing with grief and all its challenges."
Resources
Reach out to Becoming UnDone! Text Toby here!
Support the show
Becoming UnDone® is a NiTROHype Creative production. Written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for Becoming Undone, contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me at TobyBrooksPhD. Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

About the Host
Dr. Toby Brooks is a renowned professor, author, speaker, and performance scientist. With over two decades of experience working with elite athletes and high achievers, he specializes in performance psychology and resilience training. Dr. Brooks is the creator of the Science of the Comeback, an approach designed to help individuals navigate transitions and rebuild their identities after setbacks. He also hosts the podcast Becoming UnDone®, where he delves into the stories of individuals who have faced and overcome significant challenges.
Episode Summary
In this engaging episode of Becoming UnDone®, Dr. Toby Brooks reflects on the theme of Destination Addiction—the continual chase for the next milestone while missing the significance of the present. He shares a personal anecdote from a visit to an In N Out Burger, where he unexpectedly encountered the Lubbock Christian boys basketball team, involving a poignant moment of realization about enjoying the present. This story sets the stage for a deeper exploration of how we often tie our happiness to future achievements, neglecting the value of the current moment.
Dr. Brooks draws from his extensive experience with high achievers and athletes to underscore the universal tendency to focus on future accolades and achievements at the cost of missing the joy inherent in our current experiences. He articulates the dangers of defining one's identity based on outcomes and the importance of practicing last-night awareness to fully appreciate life's fleeting moments. Through the lens of performance science and personal anecdotes, this episode uncovers practical strategies to combat Destination Addiction and fosters a mindset that cherishes the journey as much as the destination.
Key Takeaways
Destination Addiction Defined: The episode explores the concept of Destination Addiction—pursuing future goals at the cost of appreciating the present.
The Value of Presence: Highlighting the importance of savoring current experiences instead of rushing toward the next big goal.
Rituals of Arrival: Dr. Brooks suggests creating 'arrival rituals' to adequately honor and celebrate achievements before moving forward.
Identity Beyond Outcomes: It's crucial to separate one's identity from successes or failures, focusing instead on consistent qualities like effort and integrity.
Practical Strategies: Implementing practical methods such as last-night awareness to ensure fully experiencing and valuing the present moment.
Notable Quotes
"Those are the moments that define us, not by just the collapse, but by what comes next."
"The weird thing is now I'm exactly where I want to be… I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them."
"If your first instinct after a win is to chase the next thing, you might be addicted to destinations."
"Ambition isn't the enemy, neither are growth or high performance. But when our peace is always postponed, trust me, that’s a problem."
"Resilience isn’t just about rising after we fall. It’s about not outrunning our own life in the first place."
Resources

Reach out to Becoming UnDone! Text Toby here!
Support the show
Becoming UnDone® is a NiTROHype Creative production. Written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for Becoming Undone, contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me at TobyBrooksPhD. Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

About the Host
Dr. Toby Brooks is the host of Becoming UnDone®, a podcast that delves into the stories of high achievers who have navigated failures and setbacks on their path to success. With a strong background in performance science, Brooks is dedicated to helping individuals rebuild their identities and develop resilience through his app, Science of the Comeback. He is also actively engaged in personal coaching and engaging keynote speaking, offering insights drawn from his own experiences and those of his podcast guests.
Episode Summary
In this episode of Becoming UnDone®, Dr. Toby Brooks shares his personal journey and deep love for the Olympics, reflecting on seminal moments such as the 1992 Olympics Triplecast and the impact sports have on shaping ambition and dreams. Drawing a parallel between the challenges faced by Olympians and personal comebacks, Brooks delves into the stories of Lindsey Vonn and Alysa Liu, two athletes whose paths to the Winter Olympics were marked by profound comebacks that offer rich insights into the nature of resilience, grit, and the motivation behind elite performance.
Amidst a narrative of personal reflection and awe, Brooks examines how individuals like Lindsey Vonn exemplify relentless determination and grit, while Alysa Liu's journey is characterized by rediscovered joy and autonomy. By weaving their stories into the broader theme of becoming undone and then choosing a path towards reinvention, Brooks challenges listeners to question their own motivations. Highlighting the psychological differences in motivation, he presents a thought-provoking discourse on how one's purpose can redefine the journey of a comeback, urging listeners to reflect on their own narratives of achievement and identity.
Key Takeaways
The Power of Grit: The episode underscores how overcoming physical and emotional hurdles requires sheer determination, as shown by athletes like Lindsey Vonn.
Embracing Autonomy: Alysa Liu’s story highlights the importance of reclaiming joy and autonomy, presenting a comeback fueled by personal choice.
Identity and Purpose: Dr. Brooks discusses how high achievers often face identity foreclosure, where self-worth becomes narrowly tied to achievement.
Purpose-Driven Motivation: The episode explores how intrinsic motivation, driven by mastery and meaning, can lead to sustainable joy.
Reflective Growth: Listeners are encouraged to question their motivations for coming back from setbacks, emphasizing growth and self-discovery over external validation.
Notable Quotes
"Being great necessitates being unbalanced. You have to be unbalanced to find every bit of energy and strength that you have to pull it off." – David Goggins
"Because the medal wasn't the comeback, the ownership and the liberty was." – Dr. Toby Brooks
"Intrinsic motivation, on the other hand, is driven by autonomy and mastery and meaning." – Dr. Toby Brooks
"Grit without refined purpose can pretty easily become self-destruction." – Dr. Toby Brooks
Resources
Toby Brooks' website
Science of
Reach out to Becoming UnDone! Text Toby here!
Support the show
Becoming UnDone® is a NiTROHype Creative production. Written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for Becoming Undone, contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me at TobyBrooksPhD. Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

About the Guest
Jonathan Schwartz is a former top-tier entertainment business manager who was prominently recognized for managing the fortunes of A-list celebrity clients, including globally iconic artists like Beyonce, Alanis Morissette, and Mariah Carey. In his career pinnacle, he was deeply entrenched as a trusted advisor in rooms that many can only imagine. However, his life took a drastic turn when his gambling addiction and subsequent criminal activities resulted in a six-year federal prison sentence for embezzling millions. From that downfall, Jonathan has since rebuilt his life, becoming a marriage and family therapist specializing in addiction and trauma recovery. He aims to help others avoid the pitfalls that trapped him.
Episode Summary
In this compelling episode of Becoming UnDone®, Toby Brooks delves into the gripping and often heart-wrenching journey of Jonathan Schwartz, who once stood at the pinnacle of the entertainment business management world. Known for representing colossal talents like Alanis Morissette, Jonathan fell into the abyss of gambling and substance addiction, which led to embezzling millions from his clients and ultimately served six years in federal prison. In a barren landscape of broken trust and lost reputation, Jonathan has risen with a new mission: to aid others grappling with addiction. This poignant episode explores his descent, the salvation found in being caught, and the gradual yet profound rebuilding of his life. 
Throughout the conversation, key themes of addiction, accountability, and redemption are interwoven with Jonathan’s stark honesty about his past misdeeds and his newfound purpose. Emphasizing the importance of humility and personal accountability, Jonathan shares insights into life behind bars, the struggle with familial guilt, and his ongoing efforts to mend his strained relationships—particularly with his children. As Jonathan reflects on his past, it becomes a powerful narrative about the opportunity for transformation within adversity, brought to life through six years behind bars and leading towards a vocation driven by empathy and healing. 
Key Takeaways
Transformation from Adversity: Jonathan Schwartz’s story showcases how severe hardship can be a catalyst for profound personal change, redirecting life towards meaningful service to others.
Importance of Accountability: Jonathan emphasizes personal responsibility as a crucial element of genuine recovery and rebuilding relationships.
Gambling and Substance Addiction: The episode explores how Jonathan's unchecked gambling and substance use spiraled into major financial and personal losses but also acted as a unique opportunity for growth.
Role of Community in Healing: The significance of constructive community circles, personal support systems, and a healthy environment that fosters healing is highlighted.
Educational Pathway to Redemption: Post-incarceration, Jonathan pursued a career in therapy, focusing on addiction recovery, and underscores the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in life.
Notable Quotes
"Ultimately, my higher power sent me a signal and he said, you ne
Reach out to Becoming UnDone! Text Toby here!
Support the show
Becoming UnDone® is a NiTROHype Creative production. Written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for Becoming Undone, contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me at TobyBrooksPhD. Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.