It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar.

Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the extraordinary history of Colombian football leading up to the 1994 World Cup. This episode covers the intersection of football and narco-culture, Pablo Escobar's involvement in the sport, the tense rivalry with Argentina, and the dramatic road to qualification culminating in the legendary 5-0 victory at El Monumental.

You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan.

01:39 The El Dorado League & Early Colombian Football
10:11 Francisco Maturana: The Dentist Who Revolutionised Colombian Football
19:02 Maturana's Influences: Total Football Meets South American Flair
27:43 Navigating Narco-Culture: Pablo Escobar
36:11 René Higuita: The Sweeper-Keeper & The Kidnapping
41:25 Building Rivalry: Colombia vs Argentina at Copa América 1993
48:12 World Cup Qualifying Begins: Asprilla's Controversies
54:03 The Road to Buenos Aires: Setting Up the Five-Nil
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.

This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Bill Buford to round up their series on hooliganism.

BONUS EDITIONS
Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.

WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS!
Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.

RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION
Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.

MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN
Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.

JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY
Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show.

What’s included
Exclusive content
Q&As
Ad-free episodes
Private community

Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part of our two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the roots of football violence from the 1890s through to its transformation into organised ‘firms’ in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. They discuss the origins of the word ‘hooligan’, early crowd disorder and FA crackdowns, and how post-war prosperity, youth subcultures, away travel and ‘taking ends’ helped create a new kind of fan conflict. The episode also covers the European and England-team flashpoints of the 1970s and 80s, the political and policing response to the Popplewell Report, with later links to post-Hillsborough reforms and why large-scale hooliganism declined.

You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan.

01:39 Where the Word ‘Hooligan’ Comes From (1890s London)
04:03 Football Fever: Mass Crowds and Class Anxiety
12:17 What Early ‘Hooliganism’ Looked Like: Pitch Invasions & Crowd Control
17:43 Players Under Attack
20:25 Fan-on-Fan Violence Emerges & the Rise of Away Travel
22:08 Cup Finals, ‘Football Specials’ & Patronising Press Panic
27:27 Post-War: The 60s–70s Gangs Are Coming
29:02 Teddy Boys, Rock ’n’ Roll Panics & Mods vs Rockers
31:02 Merseyside: Away Travel & the Rise of Chanting
36:53 Taking Ends: Territory, Undercover Trouble & the New ‘Game’
41:58 Europe & England Abroad: From Paris 1975 to Euro 1980
44:00 1980s Casuals, Designer Gear & Firms Arranging Fights
48:43 1985: Luton–Millwall, Heysel, Thatcher & the Popplewell Report
51:28 Aftermath: CCTV, ID Schemes & Taylor Report
53:50 Global Legacy: Ultras, Copycat Firms & Why Football Identity Endures

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this first part of a two-part special on football hooliganism, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Cass Pennant - former West Ham United Inter City Firm member who later became an author and film producer. They discuss director Ian Stuttard (known as “Butch”) and his 1985 groundbreaking documentary 'Hooligan', which challenged the stereotype of hooligans. Cass explains how Stuttard earned access by spending months with the ICF without a camera, building trust, and later filming from inside the action. The episode also covers the Thatcher-era context, the film’s controversial release and its wider impact on how 'firms' were understood. We finish the episode with Cass reflecting on Stuttard’s wider documentary career, their later partnership in a production company, and Stuttard’s lasting legacy. Join us next week for the history of football hooliganism.

You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan.

00:38 Introducing Cass Pennant and the Documentary
03:21 How Ian Stuttard Got Access to the ICF
11:08 Trust Test: A Year With No Camera
15:28 1985 Context: Thatcher’s Britain, Youth Culture, and Misread ‘Casuals’
24:19 Inside the Footage: Street Fighting, Early Video Cameras, and Codes of Conduct
26:23 Butch’s War-Correspondent Mindset
33:22 Back in the Studio: How ‘Hooligan’ Got Its Unfiltered Authenticity
34:02 Pre-Broadcast Panic: Calls to Ban the Film & Fears of Copycats
40:18 From Gangs to ‘Firms’
45:33 Inside Whitehall: Giving Evidence to the Popplewell Inquiry
54:59 Why It Faded: Fans Wanting Out, Politics, Policing & the Premier League Era
58:42 Stuttard's Legacy: Funeral Reflections, Final Bucket List Match & Lasting Impact

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're on Patreon! As a treat to our loyal listeners, here's a sneak peek of what you'll be getting if you join the "It Was" Patreon community.

In a new Patreon series - Rob and Jonathan take a trip back through the World Cup! This will be dropping every Wednesday on Patreon - so we've gone with the imaginative title of World Cup Wednesdays!

If you join, you'll also be getting ad-free main episodes, loads more bonus episodes, magazine retrospectives and Q&As with Rob and Jonathan. Plus you'll be supporting the show and connecting with the "It Was..." community.

Patreon subscribers get:

BONUS EDITIONS
Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.

WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS!
Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.

RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION
Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.

MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHAN
Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.

JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITY
Connect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show.

What’s included
Exclusive content
Q&As
Ad-free episodes
Private community

Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.