Hidden True Crime

After just three hours of deliberation, the jury reached a verdict in the Kouri Richins trial—guilty on all counts. In this episode, we break down the dramatic closing arguments that led to that decision, from the prosecution’s narrative of a calculated, financially motivated poisoning to the defense’s claims of bias, missing evidence, and reasonable doubt. We walk through the key moments that may have swayed jurors—including the 911 call timeline, digital evidence, financial pressure, and the now-infamous “Walk the Dog” letter—while also examining the unanswered questions that remained. And from inside the courtroom, Lauren shares a deeply personal moment speaking with Kouri’s family just before the verdict was read, offering a powerful reminder that behind every case are real people, real grief, and lives forever changed.

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About Hidden True Crime

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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As the Kouri Richins trial heads into closing arguments, the biggest question is no longer what happened in court — it’s what the jury will do with it. In this episode, we break down the state’s circumstantial case charge by charge, from aggravated murder and attempted homicide to insurance fraud and forgery, and look at where the prosecution appears strong… and where real holes remain. We walk through the alleged fentanyl purchases, the Valentine’s Day sandwich incident, the suspicious insurance application, the missing hydrocodone bottle, the “Walk the Dog” letter, the ghostwritten grief book, the affair with Josh Grossman, and the financial pressure prosecutors say gave Kouri motive. But we also talk honestly about the places where the defense may have created reasonable doubt — especially by resting without calling a single witness and essentially telling the jury the state still hasn’t proven its case. With deliberations just ahead, this is a full look at the evidence, the unanswered questions, and the verdict possibilities now hanging over one of the most closely watched trials in Utah.

Sponsors:

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About Hidden True Crime

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Day 13 of the Kouri Richins trial brought a major turning point: after a morning of tense legal arguments, cross-examination of lead detective Jeff O’Driscoll, and a failed defense motion to dismiss the case, both sides rested — and the defense did so without calling a single witness. In this episode, we break down the final day of testimony, including the fight over the so-called suspicious GIFs, the defense’s attempt to introduce evidence suggesting Eric once asked for fentanyl, and the prosecution’s effort to reinforce the strength of its investigation. We also unpack what O’Driscoll admitted investigators still don’t know — including exactly how, when, or in what dose Eric ingested fentanyl — and why the missing hydrocodone bottle remains such a frustrating loose end. But the biggest shock came at the end: after weeks of hinting at alternate explanations, experts, and unanswered questions, Kouri’s defense rested without presenting any evidence at all. Now, with no defense witnesses and no testimony from Kouri herself, the case heads straight into closing arguments.

Sponsors:

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About Hidden True Crime

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Day 12 of the Kouri Richins trial brought major moments in court as lead investigator Jeff O’Driscoll finally took the stand, Carmen Lauber returned for more questioning, and prosecutors introduced some of the case’s most talked-about evidence yet.

In today’s recap, we break down the ongoing battle over Carmen’s jailhouse interviews, the defense’s attempt to challenge her credibility, and why that cross may not have landed as hard as expected. Then the focus shifts to Detective O’Driscoll, who walked jurors through how the homicide investigation developed after he took over the case.

We also get into the children’s grief book Kouri promoted after Eric’s death, the evidence suggesting it may have been ghostwritten, and the shocking revelation that investigators say Kouri’s own mother sent a copy to police. Prosecutors also introduced text messages about the book, Kouri’s marketing plans, and her goal to sell 100,000 copies.

And that’s not all. Jurors also heard about discrepancies in phone records, how investigators zeroed in on Carmen Lauber, what was found during the search of her home, and the jailhouse interviews that prosecutors say helped build their case.

Then came one of the day’s biggest moments: the recorded jail calls between Kouri and her family, followed by the infamous “Walk the Dog” letter read aloud in court.

We also break down the handwritten notes, timelines, texts, and journal entries shown to jurors — including Kouri’s written account of the night Eric died.

This episode covers:
• Carmen Lauber’s return to the stand
• Detective Jeff O’Driscoll’s testimony
• Kouri’s grief book and ghostwriter evidence
• The anonymous package sent to police
• Jailhouse interview clips played for jurors
• Recorded calls with Kouri’s mom and brother
• The “Walk the Dog” letter
• Cross-examination highlights and what the defense is pushing back on

As always, we’ll separate what happened in court from what stood out most — and talk through what may matter most as the state nears the end of its case.

Sponsors:

First Day Life Inc.: Our listeners get up to 57% Off AND a Free Gift with code hidden at https://FirstDay.com

Jones Road Beauty: Use code HIDDEN at https://jonesroadbeauty.com to get a Free Shimmer Face Oil with your first purchase! #JonesRoadBeauty

Mint Mobile: Shop Mint Mobile plans at https://mintmobile.com/HIDDEN —new customers get 3 months of 5GB for $45 upfront ($15/mo); taxes and fees extra, see https://mintmobile.com for details.

About Hidden True Crime

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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About Hidden True Crime

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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